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Genie Plus in a Bottle of Mielle

the Just Trust Me marketing podcast. The words "Just Trust Me" are sliding down a bar and falling off onto hands raised up to catch them.

Show Notes

In this episode of ‘Just Trust Me’, the gang gets real about everything from the wild journey of job searching in today’s tech-driven market to the strangely addictive world of AI and LinkedIn job postings. They also share their personal ‘We Got Got’ stories, proving even the savviest of us fall for clever marketing tricks (ever heard of Mafaldine Pasta or Miele Rosemary Mint oil?). Pop culture references are sprinkled throughout, with discussions around popular TikTok creators, colorful excerpts from their daily feeds, and some laugh-out-loud anecdotes about influencer power versus professional authority. Buckle up for a rollercoaster ride through some hot-button issues like online trust and the ethics of companies supporting controversial causes.

Featured Guest of the Pod


[00:01:02] Rachel Moore: We’re back, everybody, with your next episode of Just Trust Me, the podcast that all marketers hope their customers never find. It’s also the podcast that makes us go, what the F about what we’re seeing every day.

[00:01:14] With me today I got Elizabeth. Holla!

[00:01:17] Elizabeth Allen: I have nothing else to say.

[00:01:19] Rachel Moore: All right, Tanya, your turn go.

[00:01:22] Tanya B. Brown: Greetings and salutations, my friends. How are you? How are you? How are you?

[00:01:29] Rachel Moore: That very sage-like.

[00:01:30] Elizabeth Allen: Did a better job than me. It’s okay.

[00:01:34] Rachel Moore: But I trust her now. So, you know, but I don’t know why I said holler either. I’m a total white girl over here. But yes, let’s get into it.

[00:01:40] So, I know it’s been another week in the follies of marketing and the world and everything. And I know we, we actually had some stuff we didn’t get to talk about on last episode. We’re totally gonna talk about it here. And let’s kick that off. Elizabeth, fill our listeners in on your current state of affairs, and the fact that you are on the free market for employment that

[00:01:59] Elizabeth Allen: Yes, If somebody needs a content marketing manager that likes to talk about books and ridiculous trivia information, please hit me up. was laid off about a month and a half ago from a job I very much liked, from a company I very much liked. So, while it’s, you know, it’s sad, but it’s definitely like, a bittersweet thing because everybody’s been so wonderful and helpful to me about it which is unusual for a layoff.

[00:02:28] Usually you leave angry. So, yep. So I am back on the open market and I’m trying to kind of figure it out. It’s the first time I’ve been unemployed since, God, I don’t know, 2000 I don’t even, like, 2007 maybe? I was unemployed for about six months, so I’m working through that, but yeah, this is a, it’s an interesting process, especially because I realized when I was unemployed in, like, 2007, none of the technology when it comes to, like, the unemployment, like, applying for unemployment has come along at all since that time.

[00:03:01] I was cracking up because, you know, it’s now 2024, and I’m going to, I’m applying for jobs that are based in different countries because we have internet now, sorry, and yeah, the unemployment, at least in my state, won’t even allow you ato submit job you’ve searched for that is outside of the country.

[00:03:22] You just can’t. I’m actually surprised they let you even do it outside of the state, quite frankly. Yeah. So there’s literally no way to do it. So I have a couple that I’m looking for that are, yeah, like one’s based in Canada and there’s just no way to do it. But yeah, so I feel like, I mean, maybe your states are better than mine but it’s frustrating because as it is, the unemployment process is annoying to begin with, especially because I know I was talking to my husband the other day and he’s like, well, did you apply for unemployment? And you know, it goes by weeks and I applied and then I got rejected because my severance was still going because it’s always like three weeks behind. It’s really hard to figure out. Anyway that’s really not important, but yeah, just one of those frustrating things on top of we know what the job market is like now. You’re applying for, you know, hundreds of jobs. You maybe hear back from one or two people. And then the process itself is insane.

[00:04:13] So, just one more frustration in the process. But yeah, I was talking about like what kind of questions I’m seeing now in interviews. And it is really interesting to me now that we’re having the AI topic constantly comes up. And it’s funny because you can tell the companies who are asking you about AI are kind of like feeling you out to see what you know about it because they don’t know a lot about it.

[00:04:36] And you know, they’re all trying to figure out, like, how is AI going to fit into our strategy and how we work as a company? And it sounds almost like they’re hoping to God you have the answer. So, if you’re in the job market and you are, you know, preparing for interviews, maybe brush up on, you know, what your skill set is when it comes to AI, because you probably will be asked about it, which again, the last time I was interviewing for jobs in 2007, I couldn’t have even fathomed this, that people are asking about AI.

[00:05:06] Tanya B. Brown: Was just going to say that one of the things you know, tying into our conversation about marketing is that part of job hunting is marketing yourself. And when our initial conversations you know, after patting your hair and giving you hugs and everything and just making sure you were okay was when do you post, you know, when do you let people know that LinkedIn post that lets people know, you know, I’m on the market and what should you.

[00:05:32] Saying it and the timing of it and all that kind of stuff. Like now marketing is not just for businesses. You know, we have to market ourselves and some of us are better at

[00:05:43] Elizabeth Allen: Well, yeah, it’s because we all are, have become a brand in and of ourselves. And I don’t think we’re all used to seeing ourselves that way. Even though we’ve been creating these brands forever in our personal lives, whether it be on TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, that’s all a part of our personal brand. And I think we’re finally getting to a point in time, and we’ve been there for a little bit, but we’re finally starting to understand it, is that brand flows over into our jobs themselves and being in the job market.

[00:06:12] We are. We are a brand. And so, you know, as like you said, as we talk about marketing all the time, this is something that you need to keep in mind. And part of my issue was that I wasn’t emotionally prepared. Usually if you’re leaving a job and you’re, you know, you start job searching, even if you’re currently still with another job you’re psyching yourself up to get there.

[00:06:31] When I was laid off, I was not emotionally or mentally prepared for it. So I personally just did not go into it with the gusto that, you know, some people that I’m speaking to here are really great about, you know, creating their own kind of series about their job search. I have not gotten there yet, but you know, it’s definitely something I keep in mind when going through this process is that I’m a brand in and of myself.

[00:06:54] Rachel Moore: Well, you touched on something there too. That is completely fake, by the way. Let’s just talk about the mind fuck that applying to jobs is. Even in good markets, even in good markets right now is ridiculous. Like, I know we’ve talked about this. If you don’t apply within the first hour, you’ve already 200 or more applicants have beaten you to the punch.

[00:07:16] And sometimes they’re closing jobs three hours after they post them because like we got all the applicants we need And yeah, and then so then let’s imagine you get to the interview process. You need to act excited but not too excited. You don’t want to be overly energetic or enthusiastic

[00:07:33] Elizabeth Allen: Don’t want them to know you need them, you know?

[00:07:36] Rachel Moore: Exactly, you’re like, I’m confident, but I’m not desperate, even though I’m totally desperate, you know? It’s

[00:07:43] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, and then it’s

[00:07:44] Tanya B. Brown: And then you’re not supposed to talk money, but okay, I don’t know about other people. I mean, yes, I’m I’m a journalist and everything and you, it’s a calling and all that kind of stuff. But I also work for money. I work because I like to eat and I like to wear clothes and feed my fancy dog and all that kind of stuff.

[00:08:01] And so I hate that cagey ness too, which is shifting by now people having to post at least a job salary range in job postings in a lot of places now,

[00:08:14] Elizabeth Allen: But the range itself

[00:08:15] Tanya B. Brown: a little bit of cat and mouse.

[00:08:17] Elizabeth Allen: the range itself is bullshit because that’s what companies, that’s what companies are doing to get around the fact that job applicants are looking for that range. So like, oh, okay, we’ll give you a range. And then it’s fucking useless. It’s like, you know, 60, 000 to 280, 000, you know, what, that doesn’t give me anything.

[00:08:35] So you know you’re going to have to go through pretty much the entire process. And what will likely happen is you’ve been through eight interviews, probably some sort of project. And then at that point, you can finally be like, okay, where in this range does this job realistically fall? And of course it’s usually toward the lower end.

[00:08:53] It’s, you know, that’s just always how it works out. But yeah I understand, like, I’m glad that people are finally starting to call for salary transparency when it comes to these positions, but we have definitely not gotten there yet because companies are finding a way to work around it.

[00:09:08] Rachel Moore: Okay, my age myself here, but hopefully people listening to this have seen the movie Young Frankenstein where he’s like training, So he’s training, you know, the creature, and something blows up on the stage, and it all goes right. So he’s trying to get him to start dancing, and he goes, Five, six, seven, eight! And I think of that whenever I think of those interview rounds. It’s like, keep dancing! Come on! You know, keep tap dancing around, you know, and we’ll get you through yet another hoop.

[00:09:30] I mean, even Elizabeth, you know, I know you and I worked at the same company. That had a lot of rounds, if I

[00:09:36] Elizabeth Allen: That had a lot of rounds, and while I appreciated that they acknowledged that, because that is, I think, something companies can do if they’re going through that, like, at least acknowledge that, like, I know this is ridiculous, but the, and I look back on it now, I was with that company for about two and a half years, and the people they forced me to meet with in this, I think it was eight rounds of interviews.

[00:09:58] I literally never saw again in the entire time I worked there. I wasn’t going to be working with them. It wasn’t a position where I was really going to be touching them at all in my day to day process. And so like part of me thinks like companies have decided that’s what they’re supposed to do.

[00:10:14] And so they just kind of crowbar in, and I’ve also found too, and I’m sure a lot of you have, is that. We don’t even start with the interview now. We start with like the personality checks and there’s usually not just one, there’s like a couple of them because I need to make sure, which I appreciate the personality checks.

[00:10:31] I think that’s like one of the biggest, most important parts of, you know, finding an employee is whether or not your team is going to get along with them. But, you know, there are two personality checks before I even hit the interview portion, and then it’s weird too because it kind of sets the precedent, so you’re like, you know, you’re used to having just kind of like a cool, casual, organic conversation, and now all of a sudden it’s like you have to be on, but you weren’t really that person the entire time because everybody, you know, everybody’s different when they’re actually going through the formal interview process.

[00:11:02] So it seems silly. It’s very performative to me. And I do think a lot of companies just feel like this is what they have to do because that’s what other companies are doing. You know, it’s the same thing with these, you know, projects that companies give you. And I have a whole argument about that. you know, unpaid labor.

[00:11:18] I’m not cool with it, you know, especially because you hear nightmare stories all the time where somebody gets rejected for the position and months later they see. Whatever project they came up with, whatever content they came up with is on the company’s website or is a part of their social media campaign.

[00:11:33] So, yeah, I just think, and I feel like the longer this goes, the longer the process is going to become and the more cumbersome it’s going to become until people just start refusing to, but usually we’re all in a position where it’s like, I don’t really feel like I can refuse to because I need a job.

[00:11:51] I’ve got that mortgage. Yep.

[00:11:54] Rachel Moore: That’s right! Like Tanya said, too. You need money. That’s what blows me away, too. Like, I do see a lot of commentary, too. At least in the people I follow in my feed. They’re like, stop with this. Like, well, we don’t want somebody who’s just in it for the money. I’m like, what do you think this is?

[00:12:09] This is a business decision. Are you not just in it for the money, business? You’re telling me you’re giving stuff away free to your customers. Miss me with that. It’s ridiculous. Oh, yep.

[00:12:22] Elizabeth Allen: the goal.

[00:12:23] Sitting down and logging in every morning, but also if I had, you know, fuck me money, I would be doing literally anything else probably than sitting down and, you know, doing what I do on a day. I wouldn’t be worrying about it. Yeah.

[00:12:37] Being in a team’s chat or logging in for a call, you know, Monday morning so that everybody can just kind of stare at each other. I would be doing things very differently. And they would be too. And I think, again, the word performative I used earlier. It’s the same thing because it’s like we’re talking and whoever’s interviewing you feels the exact same way.

[00:12:53] Unless you’re an author or something, one of those callings, like a musician where it’s like more a part of your art, but a lot of us it’s, it, I mean, we love doing what we do, but it is a job.

[00:13:05] Rachel Moore: Yeah. And this does get back to the trust, you know, and we talked about that too. All these personas, you know, all the like, Oh, trust us and apply, you know, I’m sure we’ve got a good process to really filter out and find the best people. And then, you know, then in turn, they’re like.

[00:13:18] Like you were mentioning, Oh, trust me that I, you know, know what I’m talking about with AI, which I, you know, there’s nothing stopping you from like on the side, be like, well, let me just be looking up and chat GPT.

[00:13:26] Elizabeth Allen: Oh my God, that reminds me, I have a quick story about that. My husband was interviewing somebody for a position with his company. They were doing it via zoom, and he was watching the guy as he was, as they were asking him the questions, he could see his eyes, like, track across the screen, and he absolutely figured out that every single question they asked him, he was typing into chat GPT, and he was just reading off of it, but he wasn’t a good enough performer to, like, make it come, you know, sell it, really, so, it, which is a skill. And so, and my husband was just like, I could watch his eyes track as he’s reading it back off to us, and I’m like, Aw. So like, yeah. I mean, there are some things where I’m like, okay, that’s fair. Like you can’t do the whole interview like . And he literally, the entire interview was him trying to do that.

[00:14:15] But yeah, the AI thing. You know, especially because we’re all kind of stumbling through it together at the same time, you know,

[00:14:24] Tanya B. Brown: Right. Like my boss actually was asking, we were having a little brief conversation about it earlier today. And in my business, I don’t want AI writing anything, but I also can see ways in that it might be helpful because there are times when I am really stumped about a headline and I’m like, I don’t know, you know, and so maybe, you know, I would not use what they spit out, but it’s, it helps with like, Oh, I didn’t think about, you know, framing it that way

[00:14:53] Rachel Moore: Yeah. It’s always easier to edit.

[00:14:55] Tanya B. Brown: noodle through.

[00:14:55] Right. But there’s this idea that it is going to take over everything and I think that makes people fearful and it’s out here and I think we gotta, as a society, like, get on board. I mean it’s like when those lead follow or get out of the way kind of things. And there’s no putting the lid back on this.

[00:15:16] So I didn’t, it’s out here so we gotta figure out like how it fits, if it fits, and how it fits. In a way that makes

[00:15:25] Elizabeth Allen: exactly. It is, I mean, it’s a tool and it’s another resource we all can be using. But like I said earlier, we do have to figure out how we’re going to incorporate it in. But it is something we’re going to be seeing more and more of in every aspect of our lives. But a big one of that is at our jobs.

[00:15:43] And before I left my last company, we were kind of starting to work through that process to figure out what that would look like. So I can kind of very high level in these interviews speak to that. But I’m definitely not somebody who has any like AI certification or anything. I was kind of actually just starting to work through that right before I was laid off.

[00:16:01] So, yeah, it’s just something that people have to keep in mind. if they’re going through this process, I hope to God you’re not, because we all know it sucks. But if you are, that’s going to be on the forefront of a lot of these companies minds. Because they know it’s going to, it impacts all of our lives at some point in every aspect of it.

[00:16:19] It’s going to, it’s going to impact our day to day jobs

[00:16:21] Rachel Moore: One last thing I want to add to the topic of like applying and being unemployed and, you know, talk about these jobs and they’re putting out, you know, okay, they’re posting jobs with these like super wide and possibly ranged salaries to just be a catch all.

[00:16:34] I do want to call out companies, because I saw this in the last week. And especially as someone, I got laid off last January and you know, I don’t know, do you all have like companies where you’re like, Oh my God, I do have like a dream list of companies where if I could ever work there, that would be amazing.

[00:16:50] Or I think it would be amazing. Okay.

[00:16:52] Tanya B. Brown: did and then they all folded during the pandemic. And I’m not exaggerating. I’m not exaggerating. I can tick off like four different places that are gone.

[00:17:01] Rachel Moore: Yeah. Dude. That, yeah, there you go. So, a company that I thought I wanted to work for and actually knew people at and got, like, internal referrals. And I applied to it twice because within over several months they posted a head of content or director of content. They posted it the first time and I applied and I got a rejection.

[00:17:23] They posted it a second time. I’m like, fuck, I’m going to apply again because you just never know because apparently they didn’t find who they needed. And I got a rejection. Guess who posted it again? They posted the same job. This is the third time in 12 months. So, dear companies just know that guess what?

[00:17:39] When you apply to jobs, LinkedIn will actually say, do you want to follow this company? You know, it knows that. It tracks that. So if we get little job alerts, they’ll say, hey, did you know that you’re following this company? And they just posted this job. And we’re like, really? Third time? Really?

[00:17:52] So this goes back to what you’re saying, Elizabeth. Are we supposed to just trust that these companies know what the fuck they’re doing when it comes to interviewing people you know, tracking applicants? And we always get the rejection, and I know everybody’s getting it, Oh, sorry, you know, we really liked your you know, experience, but we’re gonna move on.

[00:18:08] You know, we found candidates more, quote unquote, Closely aligned with what this role is looking for. But we’re going to keep your information on file. Please go follow our careers page. Really? So I’m going to go apply the third time and need to post the same job? How do I know you’re actually keeping my stuff on file?

[00:18:24] How do I know? Do you have a problem with how you’re finding this role? So, nyeh.

[00:18:28] Elizabeth Allen: There and that kills my confidence in the company in general, because I know your resume, right, Rachel? So like, I know that if you had not even gotten through to the interview process, either you should have had like, maybe a small handful of just like killer applicants that were just like no brainers.

[00:18:50] But if you’ve done that now three times, and you’re still not even getting through to that point, that makes me wonder, like, are you even actually looking for this position? Is this some weird thing you’re doing? I mean, remember we heard about it with the PPP loans and, like, a lot of companies were suspected of continuing to post jobs so they didn’t have to pay.

[00:19:08] I start to wonder that and you hear those stories all the time. These companies tell us we’re, you know, we’re so shorthanded, we need, and it’s across all industries. You see it with, like, restaurants they’re like, we’re so sorry. We’re so shorthanded. They have the help wanted thing in the window, but then like people go and apply and they don’t hire anybody.

[00:19:24] And you do start to wonder, and also just like culturally, it makes me worry about the company. So that takes one of those companies that you’re like. One of those dream companies really, I would love to work for them and you start to second guess yourself because you’re like, how fucked up are you internally that this is like, if this, I can’t even get through this part of the process, how hard is every day of my life going to be working with this company?

[00:19:46] And yeah, it just kills your confidence in the process. It makes me start to wonder if something weird is going on and I don’t want to be like a conspiracy theorist, but you hear these stories a lot and it just doesn’t make sense for, you know, for these situations. You should have absolutely gotten through in the very first thing.

[00:20:02] If not, the only reason I would think you wouldn’t even get an interview was then like having an internal hire. And they were just, if we have to throw it externally, that one I, like, I get that happens a lot, but clearly not. So what the hell’s happening?

[00:20:17] Rachel Moore: Alright. So, someone hire Elizabeth because, again, I mean, here we go. Brand, right here, you’re getting it all, she’s super smart. You know, we’re all super smart, but she’s, she needs a job. She needs someone to pay her the monies. Yes, she wants money. I mean, she needs it, you know, I don’t know, I don’t know if you’ve been outside the door, but, and even in your house, you need money.


[00:20:35] Rachel Moore: We started to dabble on last week’s episode about, can we not like this anymore? Kind of thing. I know we’ve got on the show notes here. Squishmallows. My daughter’s got at least, like, six in her room. So, what’s go what do we have there, y’all? I need to know, and I’m scared to know.

[00:20:52] Elizabeth Allen: like, yeah, a lot of what I wanted to talk about is with the the genocide in Palestine, you’re dealing with a lot of companies that we’ve learned throughout time are supporting Israel in their fight against the Palestinian people. And, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, how much information is an average consumer expected to have about where all of these companies money is going right and little by little you find it out as you’re shamed about it essentially. So we’re currently planning a trip to Disney in and April and I had done a tick tock where I was just kind of like complaining about trying to figure out the Genie+ system, which it’s the new fast pass and I had people going to be like, did you know that Disney gives money to Israel and that you’re supporting a genocide?

[00:21:43] And I’m like, no, I try to, as often as I can not give to companies that I feel do not match my beliefs. But no, I didn’t know that because there’s only like, I knew about Starbucks. I knew about a handful of them, and I had actively been trying to avoid them. But like, no, I didn’t know about Disney, because I don’t think about Disney all the time.

[00:22:03] And then today, the same thing with the Squishmallows. This is weird, but I own two frogs as pets, and so I’m on a bunch of like frog things on Facebook. And three times today, people were posting these cute little, like, Squishmallows that I guess are their new, like, line that they were finding of frogs, and we’re just like, oh, that’s so cute.

[00:22:20] And then half of the comments would be like, but do you know that the owner of Squishmallows supports Israel? So then all of a sudden, every, so then the comments are turned off immediately, and I feel so bad for the people who posted it, because they’re just like, oh, look at this cute little stuffed animal.

[00:22:34] And then they’re like, do you support a genocide? And you’re getting to the point where, like, how much are you expected to know about the financial dealings of these companies? Like, yeah, they’re the big ones we’ve learned over time, Chick fil A, Hobby Lobby.

[00:22:50] But eventually it’s like, it’s, it might be all of them. And then even if it’s not the larger company, the companies that company works with could be, you know, using their money in ways I don’t morally or ethically agree with. But it’s funny because I just think there’s gotta be a way to approach this without shaming people and just like, there’s no way you knew this entire time that that Squishmallows gives money to Israel. I mean, first of all, a lot of these people didn’t even understand what was going on until October 7th. They think it all popped off on that date. We know those people, but you know, did you know that? Cause I really think you didn’t.

[00:23:27] So I don’t know. And it’s so tough and. I mean, I can’t imagine like a lot of, you know, as people who’ve been in a marketing team before, like I don’t have any control over where my parent company’s money goes to. And now suddenly I’m fighting an unwinnable fight with my marketing for something that like, I can’t control it, but also, I don’t know.

[00:23:49] It’s just it’s getting to a point where we need to figure out how to approach these things. Realizing that not everybody would just naturally have this information and it’s not because you’re ignorant. It’s just because that, like, why would I know how Squishmallow’s financials run, you know?

[00:24:09] Tanya B. Brown: Right. I mean, I don’t even really know what a Squishmallow is, so you’ve all just taught me something. I mean, see what I’m saying? So, like, I If I went out today, cause I’m buying my friend’s kid something, and I saw a Squishmallow thing, and I’m assuming it sounds like it’s cute,

[00:24:24] Elizabeth Allen: It is cute. It’s like basically a big, fluffy, like, stuffed animal that’s

[00:24:28] Rachel Moore: a pillow,

[00:24:29] Elizabeth Allen: It’s like a pillow almost. There are little ones, there are big ones, like, you might not even know. And now they’re all the different, like, different versions of the same thing that are a different brand.

[00:24:39] It’s just, it’s hard to keep track of. And yeah, how would an average

[00:24:43] Tanya B. Brown: is the expectation that I seeing the Squishmallow for the first time, am I supposed to say, wait, before I

[00:24:52] Rachel Moore: Apparently.

[00:24:53] Tanya B. Brown: Let me Google.

[00:24:54] Elizabeth Allen: Even like, what are you Googling? Because Is it about Israel and Hamas? Is it about, or Israel and Palestine? Is it about you know, BLM? Is it about, like, what is, you know, like, the amount

[00:25:05] Tanya B. Brown: Like how pure the purity tests gets murky because Jesus is still working on me. I try to be the best person I can be each and every day. And obviously like Elizabeth say, you want to try to, you know, spend your money in ways that aligns with your beliefs.

[00:25:24] And I don’t want to be supporting. Things that don’t align with my beliefs, whatever those are.

[00:25:30] Rachel Moore: Right.

[00:25:30] Tanya B. Brown: But we are consumers too. And I’m like, if I chew gum, am I supposed to know that double bubble? Which I happen to chew a lot of because I have an addiction to bubble gum. That is ridiculous. And I need to, need an intervention.

[00:25:45] Rachel Moore: that.

[00:25:46] Tanya B. Brown: I mean, am I supposed to say, wait, before I chew my regular 30 pieces of this bubblegum.

[00:25:53] Elizabeth Allen: Okay, this. So this is your intervention right now. We need to talk

[00:25:57] Rachel Moore: Does your jaw not hurt?

[00:25:58] Elizabeth Allen: gum a day.

[00:25:59] Rachel Moore: cause I

[00:25:59] Tanya B. Brown: No, I’ll

[00:26:01] Rachel Moore: chain gumming, but lord.

[00:26:03] Tanya B. Brown: I’ll buy a bag and just fall into it. I don’t know. It’s hard. I mean, it’s a thing, which is

[00:26:07] why I

[00:26:07] Elizabeth Allen: it could be worse addictions. I

[00:26:09] Rachel Moore: are.

[00:26:09] Tanya B. Brown: not, this is why I don’t get it. This is why I don’t get this gum. Okay. But I guess I’m just saying just on a regular, I’m not living my life and thinking everything I touch.

[00:26:18] Should I be, and maybe that’s the question thinking before I touch a thing or buy a thing or eat a thing or consume a thing or take in some art or whatever, should I have

[00:26:29] Rachel Moore: You never leave the house.

[00:26:31] Elizabeth Allen: I just think it’s impossible. It is a task that it’s never going to happen. There’s cause even if, like I even said earlier, if it’s something that it like, okay, so I have this computer here, but is a part of it that was provided by a different company made, you know, by Uyghurs or something like, oh, you know, there’s like, and you just can’t, and especially just because we become such a global economy, it is nearly impossible. And I

[00:26:59] Tanya B. Brown: And I don’t think people, I think, I don’t think most people wake up thinking, how can they be hateful? Like, how can I, what can I do today to support the hateful stance on a particular thing? I think most people are trying to. pay

[00:27:20] bills and,

[00:27:21] Elizabeth Allen: doing their

[00:27:22] Rachel Moore: They are doing

[00:27:22] Tanya B. Brown: through the day and raise their kids and all that kind of thing.

[00:27:25] And I, I don’t know that we give people enough grace, which is where I was working up to.

[00:27:30] Elizabeth Allen: Yes. Grace. That’s a good word.

[00:27:33] Tanya B. Brown: there’s enough, we give enough grace to give of being like with the, with the Squishmallow example. I mean, maybe they knew, maybe they didn’t know, but did, but a pile on certainly.

[00:27:47] Rachel Moore: And who does that pile on happen to marketers because we’re you know usually it’s those people who are on the front lines of I’m gonna public, you know, I’m prepping this thing I work for this brand I work for Squishmallow or whatever and they’re prepping everything they’re on social media Good God bless the social media people or you know Whether it’s specialists or strategists or whatever their titles are but they’re on the front line and then people go yell You know, at, like, like that person is in any way responsible, you know, maybe on a one, one out of a million or something where they’re like, yes, I’m actively using this account to now spew hate from this brand because I have personal things.

[00:28:26] But for the most part, no, they’re just, they’re doing a job and Tanya, even too, from a journalistic standpoint, y’all do your due diligence to do all the facts and stuff you know, and try to not provide bias.

[00:28:36] And we were just talking about that with AI, where you’re like, I need stuff that’s, you know, got legit sourcing and stuff like that’s not just made up. But yeah, We just live in a world where people are going to get pissed off for any number of reasons and we’re a consumer society.

[00:28:48] But yeah I, unless you want to go live on a deserted island and, you know, be Tom Hanks with a volleyball. Oh my god though, who produced that volleyball? Don’t make, you know, Wilson. Where did he come from?

[00:28:59] You just gotta there’s gotta be a line. Somewhere,

[00:29:02] Elizabeth Allen: it becomes almost a competition for a lot of people too, it’s like the competition of who is the most aware. And, you know, I will say I hate to use the word term woke because I’m one of those like, you know, SJW woke people like I’m totally I will fully admit that. But it is who’s the most woke about these situations.

[00:29:21] And it is almost it’s more about proving to everybody else that you have this knowledge than it is actually at all about the purchasing of these products

[00:29:33] Rachel Moore: or helping people.

[00:29:35] Elizabeth Allen: or helping people. Yeah, well, that’s, yeah, that’s where my marker mind went instead of the, it should be about helping people know instead of what are you purchasing?

[00:29:45] Tanya B. Brown: It can’t be healthy to be, to wake up on outrage every day. Like, if your meter is on, that can’t

[00:29:51] Rachel Moore: People sometimes do. They’re right.

[00:29:53] Tanya B. Brown: We

[00:29:54] Elizabeth Allen: I do a lot. I will admit

[00:29:56] Tanya B. Brown: and of course I just for clarity’s sake, no one in this podcast is saying to hell with it. Just buy the things, eat the thing. No one is saying that we’re just saying like the expectation that everybody would know everything, every. bit of information at any given moment about any business, manufacturer or organization is a lot and it’s fine if you want to share that information because maybe now you know about squishmallow or whatever the

[00:30:32] Rachel Moore: And I can assess that myself, right?

[00:30:35] Tanya B. Brown: But piling on and like yelling at somebody. Who two seconds ago didn’t know,

[00:30:40] Elizabeth Allen: I think

[00:30:40] Rachel Moore: make you smarter. Damn it.

[00:30:43] Tanya B. Brown: they thought it was a pillow, you know, whatever.

[00:30:45] I just thought it was a cookie, you know, whatever the thing is not, I just doesn’t seem like the best way to go about showing support for whatever the cause is that you are championing in the moment. That’s all.

3rd Seg

[00:31:01] Rachel Moore: Speaking of purchases we’re introducing a new segment called We Got Got and I believe this was Elizabeth’s idea and it’s very smart because even if, okay. Even if we think the three of us would think we are savvy, you know, we, yes, I will go, I will, I know not to get scammed. I know not to get phished.

[00:31:23] I know how to place an ad. Therefore, I know how ads work, but we still get got. So I will turn it over. Who wants to go on something that you’re like, okay, I got something and I did get got based on the marketing because the marketing drew me in.

[00:31:39] Elizabeth Allen: Well, like, so we got can also be about things. It doesn’t necessarily have to be like, you feel like you got scammed out of your dollars when you bought it, but like, they got you. So recently I keep seeing these ads and the funniest part about it is. It’s all black women and it’s about and it’s not ads.

[00:31:56] It’s like TikTok creators, people just organically talking about it. I’m talking about like scalp and hair strengthening. And so, it’s the Miele, M I E L E rosemary, mint, scalp and hair strengthening oil mealie. And so I have been watching people who do not have my hair type at all talking about this oil for months now.

[00:32:19] And I finally broke down and buy it, bought it now. Why? Cause I am not a black woman with like four C curls, but I bought it. So it was definitely one of those things where it was like creators who I really liked and I’m like, well, maybe I want to try it. So honestly, it smells great. I will say it smells great and I have very dry, coarse hair. So what’s the worst that happens if I have some extra oil in my hair? That’s always good for me. But yeah, it’s definitely one of those things where I’m like, why did I, of all people get got by this, but I did.

[00:32:52] Rachel Moore: That’s all good. That’s all good. Tanya, do you have one?

[00:32:55] Tanya B. Brown: See what happened is everyone else is on social media with the latest outrage or whatever. I use social media for dog videos. Cute dog videos and food. I don’t cook anything. Well, that’s not true. I cook and bake, but mostly I just really love to watch somebody cook a thing on a reel.

[00:33:20] I will spend a whole 30 minutes watching somebody cook a whole thing on a reel. And there’s this pasta that people were using in like these different dishes. And I was like, I want that. So I order, I guess it’s Mafaldine and I have it and let me tell you because I’m one of those people like it’s all eggs and flour in different shapes.

[00:33:47] It all tastes the same. It’s just different shapes. No. My friend. No. Mafaldine is the truth the light and the way because the way the ripples it’s like this It’s like really long ribbon pasta and the way the oh the sauce

[00:34:04] Elizabeth Allen: See, now I got by

[00:34:06] Tanya B. Brown: It’s okay. And I, yeah, I, and I also only cause I’ve seen like, they weren’t necessarily selling the pasta.

[00:34:18] They were just creating their dish, but they made it look so good that I was like, I’m going to try. And one of those things, someone was like, what shape is that pasta? And so I got some from the Wegmans. Thank you Wegmans. And I have maybe like four containers of it,

[00:34:36] Rachel Moore: Oh,

[00:34:36] Tanya B. Brown: because I bought one and was like, and then I was like, oh, other people are gonna catch on.

[00:34:42] I should get as much of this as I can. So Mafaldine Pasta,

[00:34:49] Rachel Moore: All right.

[00:34:49] Elizabeth Allen: I’m excited to see our show notes. Cause I am definitely going to buy

[00:34:53] Tanya B. Brown: I got on

[00:34:54] Rachel Moore: Well, let’s, all right. That segues nicely though, into a bit of a tangent topic. And again, everybody that was the, we got segment. We’re not saying we’re opposed to anyone trying to get us in the future. I mean, if you want to try to get us through your marketing, I mean, I think

[00:35:09] Tanya B. Brown: Hit me with your best shot. Cause I’ve already told you I’m a soft touch right now.

[00:35:16] Rachel Moore: But. Y’all Got Got, I don’t really have anything I’ve been a little busy lately so I haven’t been shopping a lot, but Influencer Marketing, okay, and then, talk about that versus Pro Marketing, so it sounds like both of you, and whether it was obvious that these people were influencers or not, like Tanya, you said maybe that, they weren’t like, oh my god, I’m going to help sell this pasta to people, but just by dint of them sharing this is the pasta I’m using and it looked good and you decided to make that choice, Elizabeth it sounds like you may have been watching people who might be influencing for the hair

[00:35:51] Elizabeth Allen: Mm

[00:35:51] Rachel Moore: influencers, have they been given more clout and authority on these topics when it comes to marketing even more than like professionals in those areas.

[00:35:58] So, opine about that. What do we think?

[00:36:01] Tanya B. Brown: Huh.

[00:36:02] Elizabeth Allen: just think it’s an interesting topic because we, influencer marketing is fairly new, what we call influencer market, we’ve always kind of had something like that, but the how influencers and professionals in those industries are now being so one to one compared to each other when it comes to these things.

[00:36:20] You know, whether it be something like makeup or health and wellness, like makeup, you might have a, like Michaela Neguero from TikTok as opposed to you know, Bobby Brown,

[00:36:31] Same thing with health and wellness. You see, I see these fights all the time, specifically on Tik TOK between actual doctors and these, like, wellness gym bro dudes who are arguing with the doctors about whether or not something is healthy for you. And the number of times I will see people fully ride for the gym bro that something is healthy or not healthy, and the doctors sitting there pulling up, like, studies and you know, just proof of whatever they’re claiming is not correct.

[00:37:01] And, watching as people are more likely to believe an influencer. A lot of it is obviously the parasocial relationships influencers build over time which I mean, the professionals are also starting as they’re on on social media more. They all are also are building parasocial relationships, but the strength of the parasocial relationship for influencers with their audience has gotten, I think, so strong that sometimes it’s really hard to get people to see that this person, while you may like them, and like, they might be good at makeup, like they are not a professional and with makeup, it doesn’t really matter so much.

[00:37:38] But like in the health and wellness area, it really does. And recently on TikTok, there was one that I think really drove this point home. There’s this this creator called Lauren the mortician and her whole shtick was basically like I’m a mortician. So I’ve seen kids die in a number of different ways.

[00:37:56] And so she would basically comment on people’s videos of them doing something with their kids and say whether or not it was safe. Right? So. People ended up becoming really really invested in her commentary on these things. And so they would actually, if some, if somebody caught a video of somebody doing something they would think was unsafe with their kid, they would do this thing to call to her that basically said Beetlejuice, that’s a whole other thing.

[00:38:19] But it was their call to her, for her to, then stitch the video and talk about it, whether or not it was safe, and she got into this whole argument because there’s this guy also named Jamie, the car seat guy, who is a trained car seat certified professional in Canada in the US, and at one point what happened was Lauren made a comment about the safety of a particular car seat and Jamie disagreed with her.

[00:38:46] And the amount of pushback Jamie got, who is, like, that’s what he does for a living, is that he is certified to, to analyze the safety of these car seats. And it was a wild ride. There was a lot to it. It was definitely one of those, like, drama rabbit holes, you will fall down. But it proved to me yet again that, like, How strong that parasocial relationship is with the influencer marketing that we’re getting to the point where people are more apt to listen to the influencer as opposed to the professional, the certified, you know, somebody who this is what they do for a living.

[00:39:20] It’s just been really interesting to watch, and I don’t know if either of you have experienced anything with that, but just something I wanted to bring up because I think we’re going to see it more and more. Absolutely.

[00:39:29] Rachel Moore: Certainly have seen it. If you talk about influencers, you know, they just kind of grow that organic following because they seem like they talk with authority. Sometimes all it is having a personality with a microphone and a camera. You know, and then they do they gain that community and that you’re part of their, you know, you’re part of their ecosystem and their zeitgeist every day and so you feel like you belong and you’re going to trust them more, but to the point where you’re tossing aside any critical thinking to say, well, wait a second someone who does know more than you is talking, but because I, Hey.

[00:40:00] I’m part of your tribe or whatever. I’m going to trust you instead of the right stuff, right? It’s super dangerous, frankly. You know, and you would hope that an influencer would be and I’m thinking of Joe Rogan right now I am because Mr. Like, oh, yeah, I’m just like gonna say totally off out of whack things about health and it’s like and wellness It’s like okay, he wields this amount of influence for people like well, he said it so it must be right It’s like not necessarily It’s frustrating and dangerous, frankly.

[00:40:32] Elizabeth Allen: and I think as because before like most of the influencers, when you would think of an influencer would be somebody makeup, beauty, whatever fashion, it was less high stakes. But we’ve gotten into a space where influencers are also in these really important, really, again, high stakes. industries. And I don’t think we were prepared for what that would look like.

[00:40:58] I think we probably, you know, as a society thought that just wouldn’t happen. Like, well, it’s a doctor, you listen to a doctor or, it’s a car seat, a certified car seat safety dude. You’re going to listen to over some random chick who, you know, it’s it. I just

[00:41:14] Tanya B. Brown: Well, I think the seeds of it were laid a while ago. I mean, like an example I can think of are vaccines,

[00:41:22] And I’m talking pre COVID. I’m talking way back when, where you had someone who said, you know, I think the vaccine, I think my child is autistic because of vaccines. And they had, that person had enough gravitas that people were like, Whoa, wait a minute. And it was also one of those things where people wanted answers and that felt like an answer, you know, like if your child is autistic, which has, you know, you, you’re not going to love them any less, but you still want to know how did this happen?

[00:41:58] You know, and that felt like an answer. And then that gained steam and whatever. So, and then you had the back and forth and then they saying over the pandemic where we, you know, initially don’t wear masks, okay, wear masks. And then some of that was just. We don’t know what we don’t know.

[00:42:18] And now we know a little more than we knew before, but we, you know, we were guessing and it undermined the confidence in some of these established,

[00:42:27] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[00:42:29] Tanya B. Brown: Medical professionals and fields and things like that. So I say all that to say, I don’t know that the genie can be put back in the bottle thing.

[00:42:38] So.

[00:42:39] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. Or the genie plus, can’t put it back in the bottle. Did you use genie plus? Did you think about how that would impact the people of Palestine? Yeah, it I agree. I don’t think you can put the genie back in the bottle. I do think we need to be more careful about it, but also do I have faith that we will be? Probably not. Human, it’s human nature to feel like you know somebody and to look toward their opinion as opposed to somebody who might know better. You know, but yeah,

[00:43:08] Tanya B. Brown: know what,

[00:43:09] and

[00:43:09] Elizabeth Allen: Like, is Jenny McCarthy the first one that this

[00:43:13] Tanya B. Brown: no, because well, no, because if you think about it way back, remember, I mean like the snake oil charmers and all that kind of

[00:43:19] Elizabeth Allen: Oh

[00:43:19] Tanya B. Brown: vital, you know, here come on, come around, come everybody in and drink this cocaine.

[00:43:27] Rachel Moore: Oh, now you’re making me think of, like, the music video for Say with,

[00:43:31] Tanya B. Brown: Yeah, right, exactly.

[00:43:33] Rachel Moore: and Michael

[00:43:33] Tanya B. Brown: But you Like back in the day, like here, drink this cocaine in the bottle and you know, get a little morphine. You’ll be good. You know, like

[00:43:42] if

[00:43:42] Elizabeth Allen: but even back then, the doctors were saying the same thing. That’s what made it, that’s what made it a more interesting time.

[00:43:49] Rachel Moore: Right?

[00:43:49] Tanya B. Brown: I mean, what they were saying, like they’re selling, you know, snake oil or whatever. And that kind of thing, you know? And I think the other issue we have today is that there have been and maybe not even today, but the other issue is that, you know, there’s Western medicine and Eastern medicine and, you know, like people have found health success in Eastern medicines.

[00:44:14] And so people are like, well, you know, what do you mean my essential oil rubbed on my temple

[00:44:20] Won’t cure my cancer because it did this, you know, it’s just, and I mean, I think homeopathic stuff is, you know, my grandma was very much both of my grandmothers. We all had those grandmothers where they’re like, you know, not just put some tussin on it, but is your stomach hurting?

[00:44:36] Okay. Take a little bit of that ginger. And then, you know, those kinds of things where, you know, or here, put a little, stir a little bit of this turmeric in your tea. And those kinds of things

[00:44:48] Elizabeth Allen: The Windex

[00:44:49] Tanya B. Brown: right, right, right, right.

[00:44:54] Elizabeth Allen: like, so, so many so many cultures think VIX will solve anything. That

[00:44:58] Rachel Moore: Put it put it on along the bottom of your feet.

[00:45:00] Tanya B. Brown: Listen, you say that and I have my vix

[00:45:03] Rachel Moore: course!

[00:45:04] Tanya B. Brown: going right now. I mean, right now as we speak next to me, my vix humidifier is a going. You try to balance like what’s real and I think the key is to figure out, and then that gets into this is a whole nother rabbit hole.

[00:45:20] What is the intent of the person,

[00:45:23] Elizabeth Allen: Yes. I was just going to say that. That is ex. Yep,

[00:45:26] Tanya B. Brown: you know, are, is it really public health or is it really the sell of things? So they

[00:45:31] Rachel Moore: it a grift? Yeah.

[00:45:33] Tanya B. Brown: right and there and

[00:45:34] Elizabeth Allen: Well, that’s, yeah, the other day, the whole reason. I even thought to bring this up was something very similar where it was somebody who was a health and wellness person and they were arguing with a doctor. And I feel like a lot of it is just basic media literacy, which a lot of people don’t have.

[00:45:47] They don’t think to the first thing to do is go look at how many followers they have. Go look at what they’re hawking on their profile. Do they have like, are they doing something with Amazon? Are they selling something? And I don’t think. A good amount of society, unfortunately, not yet, is great about being able to just do that very simple dive into, yeah, like you said, what’s the intent?

[00:46:10] It’s not altruistic. There’s a reason they’re doing it. I mean, sure, there are, of course, people who are worried and altruistic, but I think more times than not, when you find the influencers who are fighting with the professionals, you realize, like, this is they’re looking to make a buck too, you know?

[00:46:26] And of course, they’re always the first ones like for the wellness thing or is the first ones that, you know, yell about big pharma and I’m like, but you want to be paid to don’t you? So yeah, the intent is really important. And I think it I don’t think there’s anything wrong with turning to an influencer you really like and trust for a lot of things but being a little more, having your eyes open a little more about why they’re possibly hawking whatever they’re hawking, good or bad.

[00:46:52] Rachel Moore: See we have so much to talk about. Also, Aligned with what we were just talking about you can trust us but we are real people we’re flawed people, we’re human people, but we’re just here to talk about all these things, you know, about trust in marketing and in trust in life, which so much of life is about marketing, it seems like but another thing we’re going to be doing too. Obviously we talk and discuss these things here always with the best of intentions because we want to dissect stuff.

[00:47:17] We also have intention to provide you just like, you know, maybe we’re influencing you with what we discuss, but we also want to provide you with like experts. So we’re going to be including at the end of each episode. A nice little interview with someone who is an expert in their field, probably of marketing or something related, and talking about this whole trust issue and then how it comes into play and what they’re good at.

[00:47:39] And they’ll probably come with receipts, which is good. You know, we like receipts where people are

[00:47:44] Elizabeth Allen: like receipts.

[00:47:45] Rachel Moore: We do we like all the letters and saying hey, I have these letters after my name or you know You’ve got the creds. And so, so we’ll be bringing that to y’all But before we wrap up, I know we always want to let people know we’re real people Tanya, where can we find and follow you online?

[00:48:02] Tanya B. Brown: I’m always T double B at T D O U B L E B pretty much everywhere you look. That’s where you’ll find me. T double B.

[00:48:12] Rachel Moore: Nice. And then Elizabeth, how about you?

[00:48:14] Elizabeth Allen: My LinkedIn is the one I’m giving out right now, Elizabeth Allen 1001 on LinkedIn.

[00:48:19] Rachel Moore: Nice. And then I am, Rachel has the MIC just about everywhere but it’s fun as we get these recordings going because I, so I, one of my podcasts I like to listen to is the Daily Zeitgeist and there’s a dude on there, he’s like always the one that has, he’s in the middle of the Zeitgeist and the pop culture and he’s like, he knows the TikToks and stuff.

[00:48:38] Elizabeth, i have a feeling you’re going to be our zeitgeist person because I’m like, I don’t know. And you’re like, well, let me tell you, I will tell you who on TikTok talked about this. And I’ll be like, Oh my God, tell me more. But we need that because obviously it’s a big deal in

[00:48:53] Tanya B. Brown: I just broke down and signed, went ahead and signed onto threads the other day. I was like, cause I’ve been so resistant to having another like social account. I was like, it’s another thing to like check and keep. I mean, I don’t have to do it. I don’t, but I try to claim all the things with my name because again, your market, you know, you market yourself.

[00:49:13] Elizabeth Allen: brand. Yeah.

[00:49:15] Tanya B. Brown: And I’m like, I don’t want anybody on there. Like. Talking about poop butt stuff with the T double B on it.

[00:49:22] Rachel Moore: Well, we’re going to shit. We’re going to talk about poop butt stuff next week. No, we’re not. can,

[00:49:26] Elizabeth Allen: Oh,

[00:49:28] Rachel Moore: I mean, if it’s about trust, sure. Why not?

Christine Gritmon about Personal Branding

[00:50:41] Rachel Moore: Joining the Just Trust Me Pod today is my new favorite person across the pond who’s living my dream of abiding in the UK.

[00:50:49] She’s a personal branding coach, a content strategist, and someone who probably shows up in your search results when you’re trying to find the right GIF to post. Christine Gritmon. Welcome to the Just Trust Me podcast. Happy to have you

[00:51:03] Christine Gritmon: for having me, Ms. Rachel Moore.

[00:51:05] Rachel Moore: Thank you. Not lying to I I’ve been following your travels and your journey as moving across the pond, and I am having all the vicarious, you know, you, you’re definitely doing things that I wish I could do, so I’m

[00:51:18] Christine Gritmon: Thanks. I try to remind myself that when things, when things are tricky, I’m like, you know what? I’m living a lot of people’s dream and that also inspires me to do cooler things. ’cause I’m like, I’m writing a cool life story here. Let’s,

[00:51:29] Rachel Moore: Yes, you are.

[00:51:29] Christine Gritmon: let’s strategize this content. No.

[00:51:32] Rachel Moore: That’s right. Which, which carries us, right? One reason I wanted to invite you on here, not just because you are my favorite, one of my favorite UK people, but so this podcast, obviously, it’s Just Trust Me. For the first part of it. Myself and my cohosts, Elizabeth and Tanya, really just banter about all the things we’re seeing in marketing.

[00:51:51] Some of it gets into pop culture and current events too, but a lot of it is about messaging and how these things are or are not trustworthy and the things we learn about that. So your jam is personal branding and y’all you can’t see her, but she’s wearing red headphones. If you go, you’re gonna go visit Christine’s LinkedIn and on her brand stuff, you’re gonna see a theme.

[00:52:13] But you, you walk the talk your jam is personal branding. You and I both know that’s crucial for literally anything, even if someone never works in marketing. And so can you talk to us talk to our audience about why is personal brand crucial for establishing trust?

[00:52:30] Christine Gritmon: Well, you know, the short version is because people trust people they don’t trust marketers or marketing materials, they don’t trust stuff that comes from a brand. And that actually, that can be a tricky thing when creating your personal brand because sometimes people do try to take that a little heavily towards the brand end. They, they focus more on seeming perfect and smooth and, you know, I don’t know, produced then on seeming real, and that is not the way to go about it, really keeping the personal and the personal brand. Your flaws are your strengths. Your relatability is your strength. I’m not saying go out there and be a hot mess, but the fact is, when thinking about your personal brand, remember the biggest advantage you have over a brand, brand or brand messaging, and the biggest way to get over those walls that people put around themselves when opting not to trust someone is to just be a human and to be as real as possible. And I don’t mean just seem as real as possible, I mean, be. As real as possible, be you to 11.

[00:53:35] Rachel Moore: I Nice. ILI, I just, I’m gonna admit to you right now, I only just watched what is that movie? Godness. See, I only saw the, thank you. I only saw it

[00:53:46] Christine Gritmon: that’s the thing. It’s one of those things where people know it’s, it’s, it’s branded in people’s minds.

[00:53:51] Rachel Moore: It is. Well, and I, like I said, I, y’all, I haven’t seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show either. I’m a, I’m a, I was born in 74. There’s no excuse. I know. My husband keeps just like, I, how, how did this happen? How did we even get but no, I thank you for the infusion of Spinal tap. Yeah, just saw it two summers ago, but you’re absolutely right.

[00:54:09] And. That I think too is where so many brands, you, you want to be perfect. You, you do want a shiny no, no mistakes, you know, a spotless persona, spotless front or facade put out there. And I think we’re finding, you know, and it really did happen. I kind almost can pinpoint it, you know. There was like a time when suddenly the less produced videos or the less produced moments.

[00:54:37] It’s the reason why TikTok, you know, there’s a lot of production that goes into TikTok. ’cause some of it’s just like real people talking, saying, hear me with all my

[00:54:43] Christine Gritmon: And that started with Snapchat too. I mean, that was when became less about things that you even could produce in advance. ’cause when apps like Snapchat and TikTok came on the scene, and even back in the olden days of Instagram, you couldn’t use a real camera and some editing software and then just upload it.

[00:55:02] These things had to be created not only in app, but specifically on a mobile phone. And, and that was a huge game changer. And I think that’s because with the advent of social media and with everyone having a platform and everyone getting their, you know, Andy Warhol, 15 Minutes of Fame, people really did start to become brands pretty quickly.

[00:55:24] I think people, you know, smelled shenanigans. There they were. They were just like, you know, this was someone who I enjoyed trusting, and then companies, brands always ruin everything. Marketers ruin everything. So marketers were finally allowed on the platform and they said, oh, these people have all this trust, these people have people who like them just for themselves.

[00:55:44] How can we monetize that? And so that’s really when, you know, the most powerful ever tool for personal branding and personal brands have been around forever and ever. I mean, God Cleopatra, for God’s sakes, but Jesus Christ, Christ literally. But social media was an unprecedented level of opportunity for that.

[00:56:04] And of course, marketers had to come in and ruin it and, and turn it into, you know, taking away what was special about it, which was the human connection element and turning into a commodity, and I think that’s, that’s kind of the most important thing to remember with your personal brand. It’s you, you can’t, you can use it to drive business.

[00:56:26] You ought to use it to drive business, but the fact remains, you have to make sure that your head’s in the right place, your heart’s in the right place, and, and you don’t become more brand than human because that loses the magic and the wrong people will trust you.

[00:56:43] Rachel Moore: Yeah. Oh, great point. And you always have to keep that audience in mind. And yeah, there, there can be those pitfalls behind if you’re gonna be too fake or too produced, who are you drawing to yourself? I, I wanna ask, so this is the audience, primary audience of this podcast are marketers of which you and I are both marketers.

[00:57:02] And so I think all of us will identify with what I’m about to say. Marketers are the worst at our own personal branding and, but it’s, it’s often not through lack of will though. I, I do wanna defer to you a bit on this ’cause I know you, you coach people on this. It’s not usually through lack of wanting to, it’s usually a lack of time ’cause we are literally spending every ounce of creativity, every moment of time on someone else’s or something else’s brand instead of our own. We would love your advice for marketers to make, how do they, how do we make our personal brand happen? In light of that consideration of when.

[00:57:38] Christine Gritmon: Yeah. It’s less about create, really it’s about realizing that your personal brand isn’t something you create and strategize necessarily. I mean, strategy is great. Strategy will certainly help you. I personal brand strategist. Hire me. No. But when it comes down to it, it’s really about not holding your brand back.

[00:57:58] And that’s what I think a lot people don’t realize. They see your personal brand as something they’ll have to put effort into creating. Then effort into maintaining and, and like it’s a whole separate second job. But if you’re doing it right, it’s something that’s happening alongside everything you’re already doing.

[00:58:16] It’s really about what you choose to share. So let’s say you are your personal brand, is that you wanna be known as like this awesome Instagram content strategist or whatever, or content creator. And so you’ve spent your day creating content for the brand you work for. Obviously you’re not gonna necessarily share a ton of that on your personal profile.

[00:58:39] You probably can’t. But what you can do is, you know, either hop on as a talking head or just, you know, put a picture and write stuff and just be like, Hey, here’s how I spent my day. You know, what’s, what’s your office of the day look like? And that can be as simple as like, I went to a printing company once to do a strategy session with them.

[00:59:01] And I just took a picture. There were some, you know, trimmed edges on the ground that looked really cool. They were colorful, and I just posted a picture of the trimmed edges on the, this was years and years ago. Don’t scroll all the way back, but I took a picture of those trimmed edges on the floor. And I was just like, it’s always so cool to get to talk to, you know, different types of industries in, in my work ’cause they all need the same stuff, blah, blah, blah.

[00:59:25] And that was really cool. You know, there’s always those moments where you can choose to show things or share things from your day, from your work. From your personal life even. And I don’t mean you have to become one of those LinkedIn poets who’s like, you know, this morning I was having my, you know, morning post coffee poop and I got to thinking about how it relates to marketing.

[00:59:47] You know, you don’t have to like strain that hard as it were to find golden nugget. But you know, they’re there. And just by being yourself, taking people along on that journey. It, first of all, makes people feel like they know you a little bit, which is really cool. Second of all. If you do relate a good amount of that to what you actually do, it cements that in people’s heads without you having to literally show the work necessarily.

[01:00:12] ’cause if the work for someone else, if the work is for a brand, if the work is for a client, if the work is for your employer, if the work even has nothing to do with, you know, what you’re trying to do as your own brand. Like, ’cause some people, their day job and their passion don’t meet up.

[01:00:28] Rachel Moore: Right.

[01:00:28] Christine Gritmon: Just sharing that and cementing yourself in the head as this is what someone is doing.

[01:00:32] This is how someone is spending their time. These are the thoughts this person tends to think about. That can go incredibly far. And that doesn’t have to be perfect or polished. It doesn’t have to be pre-scripted. It can be very in the moment. I think a lot of personal branding people get in their own way when it comes to not realizing it’s just a matter of freeing yourself to feel free to express what’s personally happening as opposed to always having to make it be content with a capital C. You can do some of that too. That is a good idea. I myself need to get back to doing a bit more of that, but I am my business. A lot of people have a little bit more separation there.

[01:01:14] And I, I feel like just taking people along for the journey and just cementing yourself as here’s how, here’s how this person is, and I’m seeing behind the curtain, and that makes me feel like I know this person. And the fact that they’re not just showing me this perfect slick veneer makes me trust them a little bit more and connect with them a little bit more than something that feels too perfect and like a piece of marketing.

[01:01:38] Rachel Moore: I really like that you say that too. I, I, and I gotta admit, and I think our listeners are probably saying, you know, we’re all kinda like, Hey, when and where can I do that? I, I’ll just share too. I’ve really tried to go kind of whole hog into TikTok ’cause I do, and, but I don’t produce.

[01:01:51] I, I’ve done that before. And it’s fun, but it does take time. But I usually, I just get, like, I actually do a thing. And I’m getting back into it ’cause I did start my workout re regiment again. But where after I work out, I’ll just get on and do a 60-second TikTok and I call it my Postworkout, whatever is.

[01:02:08] Right. I work out, usually there’s things going on my brain while I’m working out or there’s like music that I, you know, I do an app with my VR headset and that’s, there’s music that lets me work out to it and. I’ll share something about that or that’ll be the music on it. But I’m always used just saying, Hey, here’s something that I just thought about as I did my post-workout.

[01:02:27] It can be that simple. Like you said, and I am, I’ll just say y’all, if you go find it, I’m sweaty. I’m, not my best face, you know, but it’s like, well, it just worked out. What do you want? I’m not gonna be like, who? Look at me. I

[01:02:38] Christine Gritmon: vibes. vibes. I always say, like when people talk to me about analytics and KPIs and all that stuff, I’m like, my favorite KPI is vibes, and that’s not just because I’m too lazy to learn GA4. It’s also because genuinely with brands, I feel like the measurement is less, first of all, it’s very much a marathon, not a sprint.

[01:03:03] When it comes to things like you know, the, the ROI of your personal brand, you know, it’s, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. It’s about people getting to know, like, and trust you in a slower, deeper way. And you know, you’re not gonna be for everybody. And that’s important to recognize and embrace. You’re just for the people who you’re for.

[01:03:23] But then it’s also the fact that, you know. It’s hard to measure enthusiasm, and hard to measure. It’s hard to connect business results sometimes in a measurable way because I know personally people who engage with my social media posts, the people who click on things in my emails, the people who respond in that way that you can measure are often not the people who hire me. Lurkers hire me. Lurkers absolutely hire me at a far higher rate than people who really engage with my stuff. And so that’s one of the tricky things about branding and the cross section of personal branding and marketing is, is that it’s so hard to measure because I, I really do mean the main thing is vibes.

[01:04:12] You know, how do you really measure? Trust. And furthermore, the people who know, like, and trust me, and the people who hire me are also, you know, there’s a Venn diagram there, but it’s, I mean, proportions are constantly shifting. So I, I think worrying less about personal brand as a measurable marketing activity

[01:04:33] Rachel Moore: Mm-Hmm.

[01:04:34] Christine Gritmon: and being a freaking human

[01:04:36] Rachel Moore: Yep.

[01:04:37] Christine Gritmon: really, I again, just be human.

[01:04:39] Just be, just be a person. And when it comes to. How your personal brand can build your business. That’s just a matter of not making people have to work too hard to figure out how you might be professionally relevant to them.

[01:04:54] Rachel Moore: Yeah, that’s a real, that’s a really good point. Not making people have to work too hard. I think that’s because, because when you, when you do put that veneer out there. Everybody expects that, you know, we’re all just, Super Bowl just happened. We all saw these, you know, millions of dollars of ads that just got produced, you know, and that, you know, that went through at least six months of preparation and, you know, the production and everything.

[01:05:18] They were really trying to put that out there. They had a plan and a message. So that’s like delivered to on a silver platter, but people wanna go back to the kitchen and say, I wanna see, give me the stuff that you’re making back here. I wanna see how it’s made and, you know, and, and talk to the chef and, you know, people want that because yeah, the more you have that veneer, they know there’s real people behind it , but you’re making them dig for it.

[01:05:40] Unless you don’t, unless you’re like saying, Hey, let me. I am putting out like, and a brand can do that, right? Because they can still have that veneer kind of thing, but then showcasing Okay, that behind every brand, there’s people right. To be able to, to

[01:05:54] Christine Gritmon: There is a huge, huge, massive corporation that tends to be synonymous with massive corporation in a lot of people’s heads. And I did a couple workshops for them a couple years ago about how they can emphasize the human element in what they’re doing. And you know, it’s a retail chain and, you know, I talked to them, they were very smart and they recognized that it was in their best interest to empower people at the local store level.

[01:06:22] Rachel Moore: Mm.

[01:06:22] Christine Gritmon: Not be a big faceless behemoth where every store was posting the same thing. And it was, it was really fun because some of their stores were doing a kick-ass job of really reminding people, okay, maybe the company that owns this building and this business is a huge faceless behemoth, but your friends and neighbors work here and you go here to get the necessities of everyday life.

[01:06:47] And these people know what they are because these people are living very similar lives to yours, and that looks different in different parts of the country. That looks different from town to town. And, and there were even some minor social media celebrities created out of some of their store employees.

[01:07:05] This is someone who has, you know, probably not more, much more than minimum wage hourly retail job. She’s got thousands of people being like, oh, we wanna see her next video. And I mean, that’s good for the business, but that’s also kind of cool. I feel like that’s something that I, I’ve worked primarily with small businesses, teeny tiny mom and pops, and businesses that are literally like solopreneurs, one person businesses.

[01:07:29] And I’ve always told them, your superpower is that personal touch. Your superpower is why people will choose to go to you rather than to some big faceless, whatever. So I really loved the opportunity to help. Actually, a big guy corral that. I’m like, see, okay. They’re just proving what I told the little guys all along, which is that.

[01:07:52] The little guys have an advantage if they choose to exercise it. On the flip side, when I started my business, there were people who said, oh, you know, have a fake assistant, have an email address, like, you know, or whatever, and you know, it’ll make you look more important. Or, you know, have a company name instead your name.

[01:08:14] And I was like, no. Because it’s, it’s me and, and I that that’s what people who buy into my company and my services, that’s what they want. That’s why my business has been able to change what it does at various points. I mean, when I, before I started my business, I was a local journalist. I. A completely different model.

[01:08:35] But the way I was able to do that, the way I was able to get businesses to actually hire me in a field in which I had no professional experience whatsoever, is because they trusted me. Because they had seen the work I had done as a journalist. They knew that I supported business. They knew that I supported local business.

[01:08:55] They knew I knew what to do on social media ’cause it’s part of how they knew me. So I was able to parlay that trust into whatever I wanted to do next. And I’m at a crossroads in my business now, but one thing that I’m not worried about is the concept of, oh, I’ll have to start from scratch ’cause I won’t.

[01:09:13] Because you know, the trust you spend years building that will always help carry you to whatever you wanna do next. Because what people are buying into is not the service you provide, it’s you.

[01:09:26] Rachel Moore: That’s right. Great point. And let’s talk about personal brand versus a business brand. So again, audience of marketers out here, how does the personal brand of a marketer potentially impact the business brand that they’re trying to amplify?

[01:09:42] Christine Gritmon: Yeah. And that can go differently depending on if the business brand they’re trying to amplify is their own business, like if they’re an agency owner or solopreneur service provider, or if they work for a business. So I’m gonna handle it from both angles, actually. So I’m gonna start with what seems to be the trickier one, which is if they work for a business.

[01:10:04] This is something that I’ve actually been giving a lot of thought to, and I’ve started working with businesses and I hadn’t been before, like big businesses. Previously I was like, no, ’cause I care about the little guy. I don’t wanna work with big companies. And then I realized my heart’s way in to that work was that companies are made up of individuals and those individuals should not disappear. They are in fact, the company’s greatest strength. No matter what your business does, who you are, what your business does, someone else does what you do,

[01:10:31] Rachel Moore: Mm-Hmm.

[01:10:31] Christine Gritmon: else may even do it better. The only true difference that you have is your people.

[01:10:37] And so I’ve been talking to businesses lately and I’ve been coming into businesses and giving talks lately about how it’s actually good for the business if their employees have their own separate personal brands. I’m not talking about employee advocacy where the company says, here’s what we wanna promote.

[01:10:51] Could you guys promote it on your personal profiles? No. What I mean is, you know, your company has smart people who are good at things. Why not have those become the respected people in your industry? Why not show them off and why not encourage them to show themselves off and develop their own names?

[01:11:08] And companies used to be scared, and old school companies still are scared, that if their employee has a strong personal brand, they’ll be more poachable. You know, or the person will be putting their brand over the business that they work for, and I have thankfully found actual statistics to show that that’s nonsense.

[01:11:25] But it is very good for brand visibility individuals have their own personal brand, because a person’s messaging is likely to go a lot farther than a brand’s messaging. It’s good for company reputation because if people trust the person. They’ll, you know, sort of that’ll reflect back on the company they work for.

[01:11:43] They’ll feel like this person I trust would not work for an untrustworthy company. It’s good for employee engagement and retention because a person is much more likely to stay someplace where they feel like they can grow and where they are valued as themselves and not being kind of pressed down into a box and becoming, you know, faceless number.

[01:12:01] And finally, it’s really good for recruitment because other people who look up to that person with a strong personal brand are gonna be like, oh. They work at this place, I’d love to work with that smart person. And if I work at the same place as that smart person, some of the reflected glory will get on me.

[01:12:15] So the best ways do that is really, first of all, if you’re employed, check out your employee handbook. Check out your employment agreement. ’cause some places clamp down on that stuff. But don’t be afraid to have a chat. Have a chat with your manager. Have a chat with hr. If it feels too restrictive, be like, Hey.

[01:12:32] This is needlessly restrictive and here’s why it’s actually bad for you. But then in addition to that, you know, beyond that, think about what lights you up. Why do you do what you do? You know, what, what actually makes you wanna try? What makes you be there besides I mean, not like if you didn’t get paid, because if I didn’t get paid, I wouldn’t work anywhere personally, but, so I’m not going to that level.

[01:12:59] But what makes, what makes this a career for you? Not just a job. What do you actually care about? What lights you up about it? What made you get into it to begin with? That’s all stuff to really look to as kind of your why. To use the cliche. Talk about that. Geek out on that. Be like, you know, this is the human side of it.

[01:13:16] This is what someone who actually cares about this stuff looks like this is what someone who actually cares about this stuff thinks like. So I think that’s huge. But then also, if you are a personal brand promoting your own company, it can be very tricky to hit the balance of not being too, not being too marketingy without you know, slipping into nonsense. Like, and as I said before, I mean my own accounts have slipped into nonsense. I’m not doing any very professional content lately ’cause that’s just where I’m at right now. But when I start doing it again, I think people are gonna trust it a little more because they’re gonna know that they saw me going through this crazy time with the move and all sorts of life adjustments.

[01:13:56] They saw me through that and they’re gonna be like, oh, yay. We’re happy to see you back. Instead of saying, Ew, it’s a marketing message, they’ll be like, oh yeah, she’s back on her game. That’s really what it does. It gets you cheerleaders. But I, but I’d say have a balance there. The expert, expert people say do like 80% stuff that builds trust and that gives, you know, knowledge away for free and all that, and 20% promotion.

[01:14:22] And it can be a little, that’s a little too planned for my liking. What I would say is just always remember that nobody owes you their attention. And that if you would like to have their attention when you have something to sell, you need to first earn their attention by bringing value to the table when you don’t.

[01:14:42] Rachel Moore: Mm-Hmm.

[01:14:43] Christine Gritmon: Or when they’re not buying or whatever, like you have to remain a valuable presence. Whether that means giving tips and tricks, or whether that just means, again, vibes, you know, they need to be looking when they’re not buying in order to make sure that their eyeballs are there when they are buying. And I say this to realtors a lot.

[01:15:01] I’ve worked with a lot of real estate professionals and you know, real estate purchases are not something most of us make on a regular basis.

[01:15:09] Rachel Moore: Right.

[01:15:10] Christine Gritmon: But the people whose names we know and the people who we’ve been following, and the people who we’re interested in when we’re not looking and we’re just kind of, you know, perusing house porn or whatever, that’s who we’re gonna think of to go to when it’s time to buy or sell ’cause that’s the name that’s in our head in a highly, you know, congested field.

[01:15:28] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[01:15:28] Christine Gritmon: So I, I think that’s really what it comes down to. Give them a reason to be watching when they don’t need to buy so that their eyeballs are there when they are ready to buy. And don’t be like clumping ’em over the head with sales all the time.

[01:15:43] Bring value. Let there be a point.

[01:15:46] Rachel Moore: Yeah. No, I love it. This is all such great, great advice and information. Tons of us are, you know, carving our own path and our own business, but so many of us are, you know, doing marketing for our brand. But just seeing how the humanity should be part of all that.

[01:16:00] But, finally easiest question of all but probably with you. This is the easiest question. Where can our listeners find and follow you online, Christine?

[01:16:09] Christine Gritmon: I mean, just look up a gif and I’m probably in there with my red background. No in fact, I’m kicking myself because my gif have hundreds of millions of impressions and my name is nowhere on them.

[01:16:19] Rachel Moore: Oh.

[01:16:21] Christine Gritmon: Anyway, I am the only Christine Gritmon in the world.

[01:16:24] GRIT, like when something is gritty like sand. MON, like Monday. So Christine Gritmon. So I’m at I’m CGritmon on a lot of socials. I’m just Christine Gritmon on some other ones. But if you just look up Christine Gritmon, it’s. It’s me and I have a podcast. I still need to bring it back for the season.

[01:16:43] Hopefully by the time this airs I will have, but it is called Let’s Talk About Brand. It’s also available on YouTube. In fact, all four seasons are available on YouTube. I’m still working on getting some of them into podcast form and that is lots and lots and lots of conversations with smart people about different elements of branding.