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I’ll Get You, My AI Acolytes, And Your Little Dog, Too!

the Just Trust Me marketing podcast. The words "Just Trust Me" are sliding down a bar and falling off onto hands raised up to catch them.

Show Notes

In our post-St. Paddy’s Day episode, Elizabeth tells a fun-slash-terrifying tale of how her grandma once “celebrated” the holiday and we discuss how ingrown toenails can be a sign that you don’t quite have “the luck of the Irish”. A recurring theme on both the podcast and in marketing in general, we discussed the use of AI in our professional lives and how some mega-companies like Cisco have invested in the future of the technology. We also discussed our food-ish Got Gots and the scourge of pet spite poops. You can’t chance missing a minute of this episode!

Plus our featured marketing guest is ⁠Anh Nguyen⁠, who shares why trust in marketing for non-profits is a whole ‘nother animal from regular B2B marketing.

Featured Guest of the Pod


[00:01:01] Rachel Moore: This is the Just Trust Me marketing podcast, the St. Patrick’s day version. No, today is not St. Patrick’s day, but it was a few days ago. And we’re going to go over the rainbow right now to find out a bit more about each host of this podcast by asking one at a time, how do you, if at all, celebrate St. Patrick’s Day Elizabeth, introduce yourself to our listeners and also St. Patrick’s Day, yay, nay, whatever. What do you do?

[00:01:26] Elizabeth Allen: I’m Elizabeth Allen. I am a hopeful content marketing manager. I am currently unemployed. So hit up your girl. If you’re looking for a content marketing manager who loves words I come from a very Irish family. Like my memories of St. Patty’s Day are of me being at the pub with my grandma and my mom.

[00:01:44] And I remember the one St. Patty’s Day where my grandma got so drunk on green beer that she took out half the cars in the parking lot at the bar.


[00:01:56] Elizabeth Allen: Grandma, you know what? She could party. And so those are my

[00:02:00] Tanya Ballard Brown: her, What?

[00:02:02] Elizabeth Allen: Honestly, you know what? It was like the mid nineties. So she

[00:02:05] Rachel Moore: Face it girls, I’m older and I have more insurance.

[00:02:09] Elizabeth Allen: like she was fine. It was great. I still remember the moment we were in the car and my grandma went past our car. And I remember my mom saying to my sister, Lindsay, in the passenger seat, honey, can you go pick mommy’s side view mirror off of the ground?

[00:02:25] Cause grandma had totally swiped.

[00:02:28] Rachel Moore: Man, you guys party.

[00:02:30] Tanya Ballard Brown: Wait, why was grandma driving?

[00:02:33] Elizabeth Allen: then Them’s those Irish roots. Okay. She was, I think at that point she was in a Buick Skylark. That was her car at the time. So those are my main memories. Now I’m a big Irish girl. One of my best friends in the world grew up and lives in Ireland. I’m going to her wedding this June.

[00:02:49] I’m very excited. But we failed this St. Patty’s day. We did jack shit, like nothing happened. Normally we’d go to my in laws and have, corned beef and cabbage and stuff, but my husband’s watching his weight. And I think my brother in law is watching his weight. So my mother in law was trying to be really considerate of that.

[00:03:06] And I was what about this bitch over here? I wanted some corned beef and cabbage. Did not get it. Got nothing. Yeah. So this year was a little lackluster, but I have very interesting memories of St. Paddy’s Day past.

[00:03:21] Rachel Moore: I love that. Yes, you do. I love the grandma just waylaying everything in the parking lot. It’s amazing. Tanya, over to you. Introduce yourself please and your take, if any, on St. Patrick’s Day celebration.

[00:03:32] Tanya Ballard Brown: I am Tanya Ballard Brown and no, I don’t do anything on St. Paddy’s. I forgot it was St. Paddy’s Day But partly because like I don’t drink beer. I don’t drink whiskey or any of those things I drink, but I just don’t drink any of those things. Not like, what am I doing at St. Patty’s?

[00:03:51] I’m in the way. People are there to drink. I guess I could be the designated driver. I guess that’s what I could do. But no one I can think of did anything that they told me about, so there you go

[00:04:05] Rachel Moore: okay. Like I said, appropriate answer. And then I am Rachel Moore. I don’t know. What do I do? I am a CEO of my own business, Marketing, consulting, I do podcasts, which is, ironic since we’re doing this one. But I think I’m more Scottish, but there might be some mixed in there probably, who knows?

[00:04:23] We, let’s see, Saturday, I think we celebrated more Saturday. My husband did drink some whiskey. He drinks Tullamore Dew. I can’t stand whiskey. But he was having some on Sunday. We wore green to church. A lot of people were wearing green. But Yeah, I don’t know. I think sometimes we’ll make something, he’ll make something rather that’s Irish themed.

[00:04:45] So St. Patrick’s day was on Sunday. Saturday was when they had St. Patrick’s day parade downtown. We went to a local brew pub that’s not near downtown. And we, some people were like, we came here because we didn’t want to be downtown with all the shit going on.

[00:05:00] Elizabeth Allen: those, yeah, those parades and parties get crazy.

[00:05:03] Rachel Moore: Yeah. It’s a bunch of Elizabeth’s grandmas there that are just doing

[00:05:07] Elizabeth Allen: Okay, so I want all of us to acknowledge that I won St. Patty’s Day just from my own heritage, right? Like from my grandma who has long since been gone. I think she died in 2000. I feel like I get the win, right? And grandma up there you feel that I got the win.

[00:05:26] Rachel Moore: We do homage to you.

[00:05:28] Tanya Ballard Brown: I hadn’t thought about corned beef and I like a good corned beef and cabbage now

[00:05:32] I hate I missed that on

[00:05:33] Elizabeth Allen: cabbage.

[00:05:34] Tanya Ballard Brown: I hate I missed that on that part.

[00:05:36] Rachel Moore: I would have really liked to have an Irish breakfast. Cause

[00:05:39] Elizabeth Allen: oh, see, I got ruined for traditional Irish breakfast when I went to Ireland the first time. And we could smell it coming out of our pores. The blood sausage. UGH! Nope.

[00:05:53] Rachel Moore: Blood sausage.

[00:05:55] Elizabeth Allen: Blood sausage, a fried egg a tomato, beans, but eventually you’ve had it

[00:06:02] Tanya Ballard Brown: No, thank you.

[00:06:03] Elizabeth Allen: times that it comes out of your pores. It

[00:06:06] Rachel Moore: It’s super salty. If you have two days in a row, you have that same breakfast, which we did. We went to Dublin years ago, like a decade ago, and we were staying at B& B and two days in a row, we had their breakfast and the third day, we’re like, we can’t do it anymore. We need to go have a banana

[00:06:21] Elizabeth Allen: You know what? It is a perfect breakfast to get over a hangover. You have to suffer through it to suck through the hangover, but I remember Jay and I, my husband and I walking down the street and it was like our fifth day of traditional Irish breakfast and we could smell each other.

[00:06:37] That’s so I’m actually dreading where again, we’re going this June and I’m dreading Ooh, maybe I’ll become my skinny legend self. When I’m in Ireland, because I’m not going to eat any of that. I can’t wait.

[00:06:50] Rachel Moore: Yeah, I remember I felt okay, there’s like a Bugs Bunny cartoon where Sylvester is trying to eat Tweety and there’s another cat that’s trying to help him not be addicted to eating birds. And so right when Sylvester’s opening his mouth to drop Tweety in, the guy pours Epsom salt into Sylvester’s mouth and his mouth just collapses on itself.

[00:07:09] It’s that’s what I feel like when I eat an Irish breakfast, there’s just salt. I’m not saying salt’s bad. It’s bad for me right now.

[00:07:15] Elizabeth Allen: Salt and meat products. Yeah.

[00:07:18] Rachel Moore: It’s a heavy breakfast.

[00:07:20] Elizabeth Allen: I, like my goal when we go back is to have one just for like nostalgia’s sake. And

[00:07:26] then

[00:07:27] I still remember trying to go to one place in Ireland and being like, all I want is an egg and cheese sandwich and they could not comprehend what I was asking for. There was nothing in them that was like, that makes no sense.

[00:07:41] And it was like, I just wanted an egg and cheese sandwich. I’m from like the tri state area. Like all I want is like a bacon, egg and cheese.

[00:07:47] Rachel Moore: You’re like, you want an egg and a beer? No, I don’t want no.

[00:07:51] Elizabeth Allen: I just, and I wasn’t even asking for the bacon. Cause you give me some bullshit bacon. That’s that really thick bacon.

[00:07:57] I wanted crispy bacon. So I just asked for an egg and cheese sandwich. And they looked at me like I had seven heads. And that’s when I learned not to do that again.

[00:08:06] Holidays in Marketing

[00:08:06] Rachel Moore: Speaking of, we’re talking about St. Patrick’s Day. And Tanya, I love that you say you didn’t really celebrate it, too. One could say you didn’t try to crowbar, St. Paddy’s Day into your, see what I did there, into your Sunday.

[00:08:18] You’re just like, oh shit, that happened. On the other hand there were, as brands do those of you who are marketers out there, you’re looking for something, Oh, what, how can we be relevant on this calendar day? Whether it’s arbitrary or something that everybody knows about. So I’m just gonna shove this over to you, Elizabeth, because you shared something that a brand did.

[00:08:38] I’m like, what are you doing?

[00:08:42] Elizabeth Allen: Yes. So I had a friend who shared on Facebook that her local podiatrist on St. Patty’s Day posted a picture that said, don’t rely on luck to fix own ingrown toenails. And we’ve talked before, I think actually on our first episode about like companies trying to crowbar themselves into holidays, crowbar themselves into topical events.

[00:09:06] And this was done so badly that I could not get over it. Like it was hilarious. And honestly maybe that’s the point. Maybe that’s what you like, how you get credit for it. But. Don’t rely on luck to fix ingrown toenails. That’s precisely what I’m thinking about when I’m thinking about St. Patty’s Day.

[00:09:25] Thank you.

[00:09:27] Rachel Moore: And can you describe the image, though? Because it wasn’t just St. Patrick’s Day and toenails.

[00:09:32] Elizabeth Allen: So you were the one who caught that it looked like wicked, like striped socks with shoes. And I said to you, I’m like, honestly, that’s fucking genius because wicked the movie is about to be released. So if that was intentional, good job.

[00:09:51] Rachel Moore: It has nothing to do with

[00:09:53] Elizabeth Allen: It has nothing to do. They saw it was green, like green and white striped stockings, and they’re like green. St. Patrick’s day

[00:10:00] Tanya Ballard Brown: of these things have anything to do with each other. I guess they figured toenails don’t have anything to do with St. Patrick’s Day, so why not throw in this other thing that has nothing to do with the price,

[00:10:10] Rachel Moore: You can’t see the toenails of the Wicked Witch in this picture, because she’s got the shoes on and the striped socks, so I’m like, where are the toes? I don’t

[00:10:19] Tanya Ballard Brown: You just use your

[00:10:20] imagination.

[00:10:21] Elizabeth Allen: to see the toenails though?

[00:10:22] Tanya Ballard Brown: Imagination.

[00:10:24] Rachel Moore: toenails, yes. You know what would have

[00:10:26] Tanya Ballard Brown: it El

[00:10:27] Rachel Moore: green ingrown toenail. And grossed me out.

[00:10:31] Tanya Ballard Brown: Oh, I

[00:10:31] Elizabeth Allen: is the part you see this. And I see this all the time when you’re looking at like social media where people are like, okay, What do we know about St. Patty’s Day? Luck. And then they just like figure out any, anything you could associate luck with. And even if it’s like fucking ridiculous, like in grown toenails, they’re going to manage to do it.

[00:10:52] And everybody laughs at them. They don’t realize, but honestly, like part of me wonders is that smart? Because I would be like, you’re so fucking ridiculous. And I love you now.

[00:11:04] Rachel Moore: It’s like we pointed out on the pod before where it’s you got us talking about it.

[00:11:07] So

[00:11:08] Elizabeth Allen: about it. And this is a random, I don’t even know where my friend was. Like, I don’t even know where she lived. As I’m saying this and another friend said, Oh, I got the same email. That’s crazy. And now we’re talking on a global podcast. So maybe they win. Maybe at the end of the day, they win.

[00:11:25] Rachel Moore: I would love to hear to anyone listening. So you’re able to comment to us on our social and stuff too, but also on the landing page for each episode. But yeah, I would love to hear about good like more quippy, more Oh my God, it was so witty

[00:11:40] cause I think, and y’all, you can just, let me know what you think. It’s super hard to stand out. So that one did, let’s just be honest,

[00:11:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: It

[00:11:49] Rachel Moore: maybe not the best way stand out. Ha. But It’s super hard to rise above the noise when, you’re just really, let me, oh, let’s grab the theme and everybody’s gonna do it and talk about it and, change, change your profile, logo on social to green, a green version of it

[00:12:05] So yeah, it’s hard to rise above the noise. Do you have to make something Irish y, St. Patrick’s Day y, lucky, shamrock y? No, probably not.

[00:12:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: So we should keep our eyes open because Easter is coming.

[00:12:18] Elizabeth Allen: Easter’s coming. What are they gonna do with Easter?

[00:12:20] Rachel Moore: Oh my God. And the eggs and the bunnies. That’s an interesting point too though. I know whenever I work for brands, I’ve always tried to stay very agnostic when it comes to religion.

[00:12:31] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah.

[00:12:31] Rachel Moore: Unless you’re working, obviously, for doing it for church, you’re obviously going to probably have some kind of Easter thing on there, whatever that is, but I would get all the time are we going to post anything for Easter?

[00:12:40] I’m like, does everyone here celebrate religion? And do we really? I was always like, just don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. And so that’s my

[00:12:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: If you didn’t do Ramadan and all those kinds of things, then you probably should do.

[00:12:52] Elizabeth Allen: At the point some of the holidays can go by, guys. You can just let them go by.

[00:12:57] Rachel Moore: Do it internally.

[00:12:58] Do it as a

[00:12:59] Elizabeth Allen: Paddy’s Day is one of those. Or if you want to just post your logo with a green theme to it. And just be like, Hey, happy St. Patty’s day. I think this is the issue I have. You could just say happy St. Patty’s day. You didn’t have to try to be clever about it. And this is what happens

[00:13:19] when you try to be clever about it.

[00:13:20] Rachel Moore: And also, please, everybody listening, if you have anything that goes out externally, it is, this is something that I always did too. Look, I can look at St. Patrick’s Day and as an American, I know how, oh, there’s parades and drunken people, grandmas in parking lots

[00:13:37] Tanya Ballard Brown: pitch to people with the green on, who don’t have green on.

[00:13:40] Rachel Moore: Yes, exactly. So there’s that. But if I got into practice of really trying to say, before I do anything, let me go look up the actual history of this holiday, what does it mean, so instead of saying, so let’s take Labor Day, for instance. It could be super easy on this next labor day for a happy labor day But if you go look at the history of labor day There’s a whole lot more to it than oh, we just got the day off or I’ve seen brands just happy Memorial Day so Memorial Day has in the United States become a day where we’re like, let’s go barbecues and stuff, but it’s actually Recognizing people who died

[00:14:21] Tanya Ballard Brown: Is right there in the name people.

[00:14:23] Elizabeth Allen: right there in the

[00:14:24] Tanya Ballard Brown: It’s in the name. Memorial.

[00:14:27] Elizabeth Allen: I had Romanian coworkers who I said, tell me, is this something where I can say happy or merry or whatever, or just put the name. And they will tell you listen to the people that work with your company that are within that culture.

[00:14:43] Just because it’s a celebrant, like even, just because it’s an acknowledgement of a day that started something doesn’t necessarily mean it was happy, guys. So you can’t just put happy in the front of it.

[00:15:32] All In on AI?

[00:15:32] Rachel Moore: You know what can’t decide that kind of thing for you? Artificial intelligence. let’s just imagine, Elizabeth, you were to go ask, instead of your Romanian colleagues what if you were to go to chat GPT and say, hey, is this particular holiday a happy holiday?

[00:15:47] You could. Possibly get an accurate, maybe not not certainly not foolproof. Elizabeth how are companies feeling about AI today?

[00:15:58] Elizabeth Allen: They have a major hard on for the possibilities of AI.

[00:16:02] Rachel Moore: Yes. They’re horny for it.

[00:16:04] Elizabeth Allen: are in it for it.

[00:16:05] Rachel Moore: This is not new. Let’s be clear about that. I know we’ve taught, we’ve even brought it up on the podcast before. Also show of hands. Who on this podcast has used AI in some way, shape or form in your job. All of us raise our hands.

[00:16:18] Elizabeth Allen: Diaz!

[00:16:19] Tanya Ballard Brown: I

[00:16:19] Rachel Moore: Yes. Tanya, like how do you use it? Have you used it like for helping get

[00:16:23] Tanya Ballard Brown: have used it. I don’t use it. Does that make sense? How I have used it is I have a headline and I know there is a better way to do this headline, particularly because I need to hit SEO, but I still want the headline to both be accurate and engaging and not just, Word vomit. And there have been times I’m like, chat GPT, can you write a better headline and rework it to get these words for the front of the headline? And he spits out some, don’t use those, my brain is like, Oh, okay. So then I go back and noodle until I come up with headline. I likes that said, that is few and far between And not because I’m so brilliant, I can do it all the time.

[00:17:15] I just don’t want to get into a habit of relying on chat GPT. I should be getting better. We should all be getting better at headline writing. It’s a ongoing skill development, but there’s just been times when I am literally stumped and I’m like, I know that this, that all the words that I, that will get people to actually read this story.

[00:17:36] Well, ideally, at least click through to read the story or at the end. So when I send them out at a newsletter, it’s going to get chopped off

[00:17:43] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[00:17:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: line. And I, and I’m like, and when Google crawls, it’s not going to, surface for people. So I’m like, but I can’t mind, it’s the end of the day.

[00:17:53] I got no more juice. Now, outside of work, I use it because I like to send cards to people and, I ain’t all that doggone clever. So I’m like, ChatGPT can you write some cute something from my dog to my friend’s two year old for their, for Easter?

[00:18:15] Cause I do, oh, I need to send my Easter cards.

[00:18:17] Elizabeth Allen: Reminds me, Tanya, I totally forgot to tell you, I just stumbled upon a card you sent me. That was a lovely like you’ve got this about my unemployment and it got lost in a pile and I just stumbled upon it and I kept saying, I have to remember to tell her that.

[00:18:33] And so thank you for your sentiment . But anyway, but I really

[00:18:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: broke that

[00:18:38] Elizabeth Allen: thank you. I just happen to cross it where I was looking for something and I was like, how did I miss this? And I love you. Thank you.

[00:18:47] Tanya Ballard Brown: you thanked me

[00:18:48] Elizabeth Allen: But now I know AI wrote it

[00:18:49] Tanya Ballard Brown: thanked me for that. You thanked me for that earlier. But yes, I did. I might’ve written that one on my own, but I also, can I lie that I do use the ChatGPT? All these blank cards. I’m like, that’s what I’m paying. I’m paying y’all to put the sentiment in the court.

[00:19:05] Elizabeth Allen: So I’m going to tell you that Miss Rachel Moore has given me permission to use ChatGPT for cover letters and I use it without apology now. As I’m looking for jobs, it is the easiest thing. When Rachel was first looking for a job, when she was unemployed, she, did the #RachelForHire thing and did this great blog posts about what you need to know.

[00:19:28] And one of those was use AI chat GPT for your cover letters. Because first of all, like most of these companies don’t give a shit about the cover letters, but they want them anyway. Genius. It has changed my life.

[00:19:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: Say you’re using it for your, tell me what that means. Explain like I’m five.

[00:19:48] Elizabeth Allen: Okay, so I go to chat GPT and I go, Hey, I want to write a cover letter for this position for this company. Give me what you think I should say. And then I modify it from there, obviously. So whatever they say I change it. And I put that in a word document and that’s what I sent for my cover letter.

[00:20:08] Tanya Ballard Brown: Okay.

[00:20:09] Elizabeth Allen: And it’s

[00:20:09] Rachel Moore: I do the same and I would even like after a little bit, I try it where I take three or four of the top bullets that were required skills or, and, or the things that they want this person to be responsible for. I would get so frustrated because again, you’re pointing out something where it’s I don’t know that they even read in this.

[00:20:28] So I always want to be like, let me have a quirky tone to it. So I’d say, please write it in like a kind of fun, nerdy tone. And so it would, did it do a great job. And I don’t, just like you, I’ll both of you said, we don’t take that as the final product without reviewing it and helping it.

[00:20:42] But it certainly gets you a ways from blank page.

[00:20:47] Elizabeth Allen: Exactly. That was actually in my last position, my CMO was very into what can we do to leverage AI? And he had told me that this was like, my job is to like, figure out how we can leverage AI.

[00:21:02] He’s since left. So I feel less bad that it’s not like he was just trying to like, push me out because he left too.

[00:21:07] So fuck it, whatever. And so trying to figure out like how you can work through that. And so little by little, I started using it for small things. So like a little website copy Oh, if we had to do a blog post, like maybe an outline it was very helpful for that I never let myself use it for just copying pasting and throwing it to somebody would never do that but it was very helpful to organize your thoughts because a lot of us, especially those of us who have been in marketing for a long enough time, we were like yeah.

[00:21:39] I knew that’s what I should be doing, but it organize your thoughts. And then my biggest thing was I was working for a company that did AP automation. And you’re like, at some point you get to the point where you’re like, there’s only so many more ways I can say the same thing over and over

[00:21:55] And you’re just like, I can’t say it in any different way than how I’ve already said it. And you start to feel like, Oh my God, maybe I’m like failing. And I will say that AI or chat GPT did help with it would, what I found is it would give me a word, like there would be some word in one of the things that would output.

[00:22:15] And I’d be like, Oh, that word. And then I could work from that word. It was very good. It was almost like workshopping and like brainstorming. It was actually very helpful to me. And luckily because I worked for a company that like appreciated that they were like, Oh yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:33] Let it like help you brainstorm. tHere would be so many times where I’d be like, Oh, I can’t think of another way to say this

[00:22:40] and chat GPT would give me just that one word where I was like, Oh, holy shit. I know exactly how to say this now. And I was always like, it was fascinating to

[00:22:50] Rachel Moore: Yeah I think we’ve gone from companies have gone a bit beyond appreciation now. We are now in a day and age, and, Elizabeth, you got laid off, and I got laid off last year. The layoffs continue. We’ve definitely seen that trend lately to where companies are being outed , via video people being laid off and some of these folks are like live recording live streaming or recording and posting their side of getting laid off.

[00:23:20] And I saw an article too. I was so annoyed by it. was on entrepreneur. com. It was like, companies are trying to figure out the better ways to lay people off so that they’re not going to run into these social media, faux pas and the viral moments. And I’m like fuck you don’t care.

[00:23:36] But. So companies are staking their social sentiment on AI as into the tune of saying, we’re good. Google is a great example. Lay tons of people off because it’s like we’ve got a shift to AI and that’s why we’re making these. We’re going to lay people off so we can hire people who know about AI, which by the way the fact that Elizabeth knows how to do AI more than people, other people, Anybody listening.

[00:23:58] Here you go. There, there’s your person. There’s your gateway person to get your content team into AI. Elizabeth, you talked about automation. Cisco spent 28 billion, billion with a B dollars on acquiring an AI company called Splunk. What a weird name.

[00:24:15] Elizabeth Allen: Splunk.

[00:24:16] Rachel Moore: Splunk. But they, 28 billion. That was on LinkedIn in the news this morning today. And I saw someone was talking about how, apparently incorporating that tech into Cisco, this woman said she was able and everybody can relate to this, right? She’s I had thousands of unread emails in my inbox and she says I was able to get it down to zero.

[00:24:35] So it sounds like they’re using it for automation. I can say too, the way I use AI. I use it in my podcast editing. I can actually say, Hey, I want you to clean up the whole script. Go highlight any sentences that don’t make this very readable and it’ll remove them for me, let me restore them if I want.

[00:24:54] It’ll create show notes for me. It’ll create YouTube descriptions that have our chapters in it. I’ll say, Hey, go pick five clips that range between 30 and 60 seconds in length. So I can share this on social. It’ll find me about 10 different options and I can go, Oh, good. That’s a good clip. I don’t have to go skate through the whole thing.

[00:25:12] So talk about the time saving aspect.

[00:25:14] Tanya Ballard Brown: I wanted to jump in and say that something that is not added to the conversation that much, but I gotta say it that I recently actually did a whole training on AI tools that we as journalists could use. And it was both interesting, but because in the two weeks since I took the training, so much other stuff has happened, I literally just remembered I did this and had intended to go back and really dig into that and see how we might use some of those things again, as A help mate as an assist

[00:25:50] Not to take over any function or not to be, doing anything like that.

[00:25:54] And the email thing is hilarious to me because yes, check GPT or whatever you’re using Splunk for whatever can clear out your email. But that’s also something you could have just done from the beginning. Cause I get to zero almost there. I just, Filter and delete people, filter and delete.

[00:26:15] If you had thousands of emails that that AI program was able to just filter through and delete. You could have just always deleted them.

[00:26:23] Rachel Moore: I honestly, I get concerned because I don’t know how y’all feel about it and I don’t know how our listeners feel about it, but, I know that these leaders of these companies and the boards that they and the stakeholders and the shareholders and I’m sure they’re all obviously looking at bottom line.

[00:26:38] I can’t help but think they’re all being kind of Scrooge McDuck where he’s got dollar signs in his eyeballs, and just reflecting his eyes. Cause that’s all they can see is look how much money we can save by not having people and instead doing AI. There’s that aspect of it and I’m sorry, I’m a child of the Terminator culture where it’s like Skynet, have we not learned anything?

[00:26:59] There was a meme going around of Sarah Connor, just looking badass from Terminator two, where she’s just looking evil, like what the fuck into the camera. And she’s like Sarah Connor with y’all going whole hog into AI.

[00:27:09] And she’s just what the hell are you doing? So they are, the companies all over are just, they can’t. scramble toward AI fast enough and are putting all their eggs, all their dollars in the basket of AI. do y’all think about that?

[00:27:24] Tanya Ballard Brown: Remember when what are those things that President Bush fell off of? No, what did President Bush fall off of?

[00:27:30] Rachel Moore: He fell off something?

[00:27:31] Tanya Ballard Brown: Yes, it was,

[00:27:33] um, Segway.

[00:27:34] Elizabeth Allen: thrown at his head?

[00:27:35] Tanya Ballard Brown: The Segway. Remember when the Segway was going to revolutionize? Yeah,

[00:27:40] Rachel Moore: You don’t remember Segways, Elizabeth?

[00:27:42] Elizabeth Allen: I remember Segways, I don’t remember him falling off a Segway.

[00:27:45] Tanya Ballard Brown: he fell off the Segway.

[00:27:46] Rachel Moore: I didn’t remember that either.

[00:27:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: when they were going to change the world as we knew them and now they’re just things that people use, tourists use?

[00:27:54] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, they’re just a

[00:27:55] Tanya Ballard Brown: They were going to just cars were going to go away. This is the same thing that we always over predict. And then there’s an under deliver. I think that AI will be used and it will be incorporated.

[00:28:06] The internet, Oh my God, the internet was going to just obliterate. So remember the millennium, the two thousand the

[00:28:16] Elizabeth Allen: Oh yeah,

[00:28:16] Tanya Ballard Brown: right, all at Y2K. Thank you. All of it was because I was at the Willenium when Y2K happened, which was Will Smith’s New Year’s thing down on the mall.

[00:28:26] It was the Willenium. That’s what it was.

[00:28:27] Rachel Moore: Thank god I’m so jealous of you right

[00:28:29] Tanya Ballard Brown: Everybody like jumping on video, remember the, like for the journalism it was the pivot to video, then the pivot back from video, then the

[00:28:38] pivot back to video. Everything’s gonna change the world. Cause they, everything, they feel like we’re, always we’re shifting from the wagon, the horse and buggy with the car.

[00:28:51] And I don’t know that the jumps. At this part of whatever, wherever we are is the same or ever going to be the same as the jumps from the buggy to the car from, all those. So yes, I think what will happen is AI will become a useful tool and that people use and I’m one of those people too, who was like, I don’t want a camera, a ring camera.

[00:29:20] I don’t want, and I still don’t have like I very rarely use Siri, but I’m using it more than I did. But I still don’t have Google voice and any of those things in my house. I don’t want that in my house. I didn’t want the ring camera. I don’t want that going on. But I have a ring camera now. I probably at some point i’m just gonna just cave in and get Okay, bye Eventually we all adopt, we most, not all, but most of us will, it will become so ubiquitous that we will all be using AI in some way in our everyday lives.

[00:29:53] But I don’t think it’s going to change the world as we know it. And just because I don’t know that we’re making those kinds of leaps,

[00:30:05] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah.

[00:30:06] Tanya Ballard Brown: those big leaps in this particular era. I also can be very wrong and that’s okay too.

[00:30:13] Elizabeth Allen: I think it has to do between the difference between quality versus quantity. I think AI can get us the quantity, right? It can get us just like churning out shit as fast as we possibly can how many times have you read something and you’re like, That was not written by a human.

[00:30:33] That’s not how a human talks. Or you see a picture, like a lot of I have not dealt a lot with the like image AI, but you look at those pictures and you’re like, that is clearly an AI image and yeah,

[00:30:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: so interesting. You would say that about, this is not how people talk because that’s why I was asking you about the cover letters, because listen, I like cover letters. I don’t require them when I’m, because I realized the world is changing in Gen Z and,

[00:31:03] Rachel Moore: Thank you.

[00:31:04] Tanya Ballard Brown: but I like to get them because in what you do in my field is right.

[00:31:09] Every day,

[00:31:10] Rachel Moore: hmm.

[00:31:11] Tanya Ballard Brown: sample of your writing that’s not already been edited and touched by someone else and helped along is a cover letter, right? Ideally you should have workshopped that before you sent it. So there’s that. I like to get them, but also my cover letters are conversational. I write a hell of a damn good, cover letter.

[00:31:28] Okay. It

[00:31:29] Elizabeth Allen: remember the, like one cover letter. Was it like you wrote for the daily show or something? And the

[00:31:34] Tanya Ballard Brown: Probably, because I applied to

[00:31:36] all those people. Taylor Show, Jon Stewart who was

[00:31:39] Elizabeth Allen: so good. Yes.

[00:31:41] Tanya Ballard Brown: trying to get all those people to take me in, please. But yes, and I would note how I like three of the four Chris’s. I get all of that in, and I have had people, I get through the censors.

[00:31:56] With my cover letters, I write a darn good cover letter. I don’t know that AI can

[00:32:02] That conversational tone that I think I hit in cover letters, but

[00:32:08] I hope that people applying for journalism jobs are not using AI to write their covers. I hope not. To just write it, you know what I’m saying?

[00:32:16] Please.

[00:32:17] And I’m not saying

[00:32:18] not suggesting that’s what you were doing, Elizabeth. I hadn’t even considered it. So that’s why I was like, wait, explain to me like you’re five.

[00:32:24] I just, yeah.

[00:32:26] Rachel Moore: but and here’s the thing too, why I did it. I was mass applying. And I know you are too, Elizabeth. And I know a ton of people are. And cause there’s less jobs, especially in marketing right now, and Less jobs than there are applicants.

[00:32:40] This is totally side tangent, but I was on like, this was, I want to say a year and a half, two years ago. I was on some kind of, I was hosting or moderating a webinar where some people were like talking about, Oh, here’s how to plan it. Like you need to customize every single one. And I’m like, okay, you are in a pipe dream because some of these folks are applying to 20 to 30 jobs a day, just

[00:33:00] Elizabeth Allen: not kidding you. I think last week I told my husband I applied for 60 jobs

[00:33:05] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[00:33:05] Elizabeth Allen: 60 jobs last week.

[00:33:07] Rachel Moore: Yeah, because you’re trying to get hired and you’re just like

[00:33:09] Elizabeth Allen: throw all the shit at the wall and hope something sticks

[00:33:13] Tanya Ballard Brown: Well, here’s something to keep in mind and I just wanna throw this out there ’cause I’m remembering it from this training

[00:33:19] Rachel Moore: Yes

[00:33:19] Tanya Ballard Brown: that when you put your cover letters or whatever in chat I won’t use chat GPT because one, for whatever reason, my mouth doesn’t want to say it, but also when you use AI for your cover letters and stuff, you need to be very clear about how they’re using this information.

[00:33:35] Because they don’t just take it in and spit it back out you and then delete it.

[00:33:40] Rachel Moore: No, you’re right. Yeah.

[00:33:42] Tanya Ballard Brown: would just, I’m just

[00:33:44] Rachel Moore: You’re absolutely right Tanya because I don’t remember if I brought this up on a prior episode I was watching something about AI and they were talking about somebody was trying to get some analysis done on some data, but and then they were like, Hey, we want to analyze these, projections we have for when we build a new site.

[00:34:01] On this site in this location, but that was under embargo, but because they put it in a chap GPT 3. 5 or whatever, that not the paid version or not anything that it, that went out into the internet. Now chat GPT knows that information, so it leaked. Because of that. So from a journalist and press and media standpoint, good god no don’t use, just drop shit in there that, especially if you’re like, oh, I’m writing a story that I, we got to be the first to get it out and we don’t want it to leak.

[00:34:31] Do not.

[00:34:32] Tanya Ballard Brown: you have sources, that you made promises to, and you wouldn’t certainly want to put your raw copy in there because

[00:34:39] Rachel Moore: yeah.

[00:34:41] Tanya Ballard Brown: you go and you make changes to it and it just can be so problematic. Just, be very judicious about how you decide to use it, but also be judicious about how use it for, I think any purpose where you might be giving information to, cause we don’t know how, That might be used, and this is where I will stop being a mom and hush it up and say, it can be a tool.

[00:35:07] Use it for a tool. Just be careful

[00:35:11] Elizabeth Allen: That’s the thing. Honestly, how you keep saying, use it for as a tool. That is one of my biggest Oh my God. That’s how I live with it. Use it for a tool. That’s what I was telling everybody that I could speak to is you are, you’re not using it to recreate anything. You’re not using it to replicate anything.

[00:35:29] It’s using it as a tool, just like you would use, like Microsoft word as a tool or Excel as a tool. And I think if you can get that sweet spot, you’re okay. I think you need to be very careful that of course there are going to be people who are like not smart about it and who are basically just like copying and pasting exactly what ChatGPT is telling them.

[00:35:53] But I think that becomes very obvious over time and that people who, especially people who care about like content and marketing are really just using it to organize our thoughts and then get them out into the world. Yeah.

[00:36:13] Rachel Moore: think that we’ve each touched on exactly what a problem and I don’t think it’s a potential problem, it is a problem, because we just talked about there are cases where someone trusted AI to do a certain amount of stuff, and it was too much. I do get concerned because this is very Skynet of me, but I’m just like, in even sci fi, there are warnings and, hey, it’s fine to go invest in it and go see and, if you’ve got successes from it, great.

[00:36:42] But maybe don’t, I do feel like everyone’s barreling toward whatever this endgame is with A. I.

[00:36:51] Elizabeth Allen: discussion about the Willy Wonka experience last week tells you that exactly what we’re talking about. You have to be very careful. And the obligation is both on the creators and on the consumers to be like, does this seem real to you?

[00:37:08] Rachel Moore: Yes, exactly. And I know we’re seeing butterbean on the screen and

[00:37:13] Elizabeth Allen: Hi, Butterbean!

[00:37:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: Okay. Sorry I apologize for the intern’s Interruption

[00:37:19] Rachel Moore: Butterbean’s who dis? And

[00:37:22] Tanya Ballard Brown: the podcast.

[00:37:24] Rachel Moore: she’s

[00:37:24] Elizabeth Allen: Are we paying her? Hey, Butterbean, are we paying you enough?

[00:37:28] Rachel Moore: Aw, look at her.

[00:37:28] Elizabeth Allen: Aww, she seems like we’re not paying her enough. I feel like we need to be paying her more.

[00:37:33] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’m ready to go outside, wrap it up, ladies.

[00:37:38] We’re not going outside again. We just went outside.

[00:37:42] We Got Got

[00:38:19] Rachel Moore: Let’s do the We Got Got. And again, for anyone who missed We Got Got this brilliant idea, I think was Elizabeth’s idea. Was that, Hey, we’re marketers, we’re journalists, we’re people who feel like pretty savvy shoppers, savvy when it comes to being advertised to whether directly or indirectly.

[00:38:34] But we do get got. And I want to hear what y’all got got about Tanya. What did you, what were you doing? And it’s very foodie, foodie version this week.

[00:38:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: I will say I wasn’t exactly sold anything other than a dream. There was this, and this was like around the holidays too. There was this like post that this lady posted with this sweet potato Hennessy pound cake, right? And it looked real, real good. So I made this pound cake.

[00:39:09] I’m boring. So I didn’t really care for it, but the neighbor boys really enjoyed it. The young men who live next door and my regular date really enjoyed it. So between them, they all ate it and nom done There was another thing today, cause all I, my, one of my brothers, really all we do is send each other’s memes back and forth.

[00:39:33] And so on Instagram there was a meme about someone saying, stop with this stuff on Instagram, because my back was going, it was going to stay big, right? Any of these things. And I had sent that to him.

[00:39:50] Elizabeth Allen: The back big is a new thing. I just recently learned about, I’ll tell

[00:39:55] Tanya Ballard Brown: big back,

[00:39:56] Elizabeth Allen: And it came out of the whole legion Reesa Teesa thing. I didn’t realize that saying somebody had big back was like a racial thing. It’s like

[00:40:05] Tanya Ballard Brown: No, it’s not racial. It’s about being fat, but yes, it did come from a black. It is black slang, but it’s about being eaten too much. And you’re, big back cause you’ve got a big back. Cause you eat when you’re fat. the guy was like, I’m out. I can’t reduce my back is going to stay big because y’all keep sending along the Dorito crusted shrimp something, whatever.

[00:40:29] And I sent it to my, one of my brothers and he said, it’s hard though, because I absolutely had to make the something. And the sweet potato Hennessy pound cake. And I laugh. I would say, Oh my, we both got, got, cause we both made that cake and it was hilariously funny.

[00:40:47] But I did get got on another thing that was actually a good purchase. It was a suit actually, that kept showing up over and over in my timeline. And I finally pulled the trigger to buy it. I needed something to wear to a wedding. And I was like, I’m just going to get it.

[00:41:04] And it was more money than I wanted to spend for something I couldn’t return. So I was like, please God. Let this fit because I’m getting got I look great. I did have to have it altered slightly, but the wedding, I looked great. A lot of compliments. So it was a good guy. I haven’t had a bad got yet, but I gets got a lot on the food stuff.

[00:41:31] I will say that I guess got a lot on food stuff because I’m, you know, I’m big back ish.

[00:41:39] Rachel Moore: Yeah, as soon as you said big background, I’m like cause I’ve tried like wearing like strapless stuff or whatever and I could

[00:41:45] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’m probably the smallest back I’ve been in a long time. I’m college size back. But. I have big back tendencies in that I like good foods. And so even though I might not scarf them all in, I will nibble and taste on some good eating.

[00:42:02] And I do like food between the food, the cooking things, and the dogging things on Instagram, I am easily entertained. You I can get sucked right in.

[00:42:12] Rachel Moore: Elizabeth, what about you though? I know. Cause you also

[00:42:15] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah,

[00:42:16] so mine were, so I follow these two people on Tik TOK called Liam and Rob Lapham and they have a podcast called In Moderation and I love them so freaking much. First of all, Rob Lapham looks like a fucking Viking. That’s just what he looks like. He looks like he’s a Viking and they’re both very cool about food.

[00:42:38] Like a lot of times when you come to like wellness creators on TikTok, you get like the people who are like, don’t eat carbs. Carbs will kill you. Like red 40 will kill you. And they’re very cool about that.

[00:42:52] Tanya Ballard Brown: Intermittent fasting.

[00:42:54] Elizabeth Allen: fasting, all of that. Rob and Liam had recommended a few times chomps, which are meat sticks.

[00:43:02] And now I will tell you that I am a full garbage gas station, bitch. Okay. So I love, when you go to the gas station and you buy those, like it’s a beef stick and a cheese stick right next to each other

[00:43:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: I don’t like them.

[00:43:16] together, but I do a good old jerky stick.

[00:43:20] Elizabeth Allen: fucking love those. I, they’re my favorite thing in the world. I have been eating them since going to my grandma’s house when we were like picking our snacks and I’d be like, I need a beef and cheese stick.

[00:43:30] That’s what my snack will be. And I know it’s garbage and I love it. So anyway, chomps is a new beef stick. That is, I think it’s better for you. I don’t know. I didn’t really pay attention. It’s better for you with calories or carbohydrates or

[00:43:47] Rachel Moore: No sugar, gluten free, 100 percent grass fed and finished beef, free range turkeys, and sustainably farmed venison.

[00:43:55] Elizabeth Allen: Sure, they taste exactly like the beef stick you would get from those beef and cheese sticks that I would normally buy as a garbage goblin raccoon of a person.

[00:44:05] Tanya Ballard Brown: the salt content that’s what’s getting you is

[00:44:08] Elizabeth Allen: They are. And they are so good. So I bought the, I got caught by those and you know what? Not mad about it.

[00:44:16] Honestly, One of my biggest issues is like when people give you suggestions for snacks, a lot of the snacks are sweet based. They’re like granola. They’re yogurt. They’re whatever. I don’t like sweet base. I want savory.

[00:44:31] That’s always my thing. So these chopsticks, totally worth it. Love them. So I got caught, but it was worth it. And then just like literally probably an hour before we started recording this, I had seen these people talking about the Goldfish, like goldfish pepper charm goldfish. They have these things called crisps and they have them in different flavors.

[00:44:56] So they, I picked the salt and vinegar flavor because I will always pick a salt and vinegar potato chip and they are, so it’s basically like a goldfish, but it’s puffed up a lot and they have salt and vinegar, sour cream, and I think cheddar. The salt and vinegar, delicious. 100 percent would buy again.

[00:45:19] Anyway, so this is me, like my fat ass, who’s telling you, I got by the Chomps and the Goldfish Crisp Salt and Vinegar. You should eat them.

[00:45:31] Rachel Moore: I’ll add one. This is me being an angry mom of a cat. Because our cat, his name is Scooter Bill. He’s a brown tabby. We love him to death. We will love him unto his death because we’ll love him as long as he’s alive. So

[00:45:44] Elizabeth Allen: ha.

[00:45:45] Rachel Moore: Not to beat my pop. Which may be sooner than later, I don’t know. But he’s been super finicky lately. More so than normal and we usually get a bag of dry food and we’ll get some packs of wet food. I can’t remember what brand we did, but we have for months been giving him the same kind of wet food and he just eventually just I’m not eating that.

[00:46:06] I’m not eating that. So my husband goes to PetSmart and he gets four different cans of food, brings them home, and we do a taste test with this feline. And so over the course of two days, gave him one can, wolf that fucking thing down. Next can, turned his nose up at it, doesn’t want it.

[00:46:25] Okay, good. And so as he’s finishing a can, I rinse it out, I dry it off. And on the bottom, I’ll put a yes in a marker that yes, this is a winner chicken dinner. Apparently he liked chicken. So four cans. And we had three out of four. He ate. He just wolfed them down. So Maya goes and gets, he orders another, a case of the kinds that he liked.

[00:46:45] Plus he got a bag of dry food. Now the first morning I go to feed him a can. I open a can and again it’s one of the kinds that he had been partial to. He turns his nose up at it.

[00:46:55] Elizabeth Allen: Of course.

[00:46:56] Rachel Moore: But I turn and look at that he has Meanwhile, overnight, torn a tiny hole into the side of the dry food bag, and I’m like, Alright, I’m

[00:47:05] Tanya Ballard Brown: So he wasn’t

[00:47:06] Rachel Moore: He was hungry, but I was like, do you want this? So I opened the bag I take out, I scoops. So he almost he face plants into that dry food so we got a case of the wet food. He will not eat that now. He wants the dry. I am so over this cat right now. I can’t tell you because we literally just fucking tried to make sure we’re meeting your needs.

[00:47:31] Trying to change shit up for you. We rotate cans food. We don’t give him the same can over and over we rotate. This guy won’t eat. I feel got gotten by my cat That we went and got this shit that he thought he liked or we thought he liked now He’s no bitch. I want that dry food now.

[00:47:49] Fuck you and your can stuff

[00:47:50] Tanya Ballard Brown: I get got like that by my dog all the time who

[00:47:54] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, your dog’s a diva, so I’m not

[00:47:57] Tanya Ballard Brown: she Man, I

[00:48:02] Elizabeth Allen: Diva.

[00:48:03] Rachel Moore: Fight

[00:48:04] Tanya Ballard Brown: love this dog. I

[00:48:05] Elizabeth Allen: Spite poopin this morning?

[00:48:18] Tanya Ballard Brown: so that I will see it. And then the thing that really cracks me up is that you will walk over to it and sniff it like, who did It looks up at me, that you put this little turd here because you were angry next to, or close to the puppy pad

[00:48:35] Elizabeth Allen: Bitch, who do you think

[00:48:36] Tanya Ballard Brown: Visual distance from the puppy pad there too. I always have two puppy pads in here so that when I’m, if I’m not here or if I’m like doing something like this and she needs to go and I can’t take her out, she doesn’t have to like. You know be in distress you can go on the puppy pad. I’m totally fine with that. No, she puts her Near the puppy pad because I want you to know that I knew that the puppy pad was here And I am opting not to use it because what you shouldn’t have done was left me here alone with blue Listen with

[00:49:08] Elizabeth Allen: dare you?

[00:49:10] Tanya Ballard Brown: Fancy snacks Heat, water, comfy pillows and whatnot.

[00:49:16] How dare you leave me here in this lap of luxury to go out and actually earn a living. I’ll do whatever you want or go get me a different food because I won’t eat the food that you fed me. I’m gonna leave this little poop here in the middle of the floor to teach you a lesson. She, every time I leave this house, she leaves that one look.

[00:49:33] I know that she is. And my friend is like, she is just about, he just refuses to believe. And I’m like, no, she is doing this on purpose because otherwise she goes outside or she’ll Oh, I can guarantee when I come in this house. If I have left her and I come in, it’s 20 minutes, two hours. It doesn’t matter.

[00:49:55] There is almost, I’m almost certain now that when I, as soon as I closed the door and she stands there for a minute Oh, she had, Oh, no, I know this bitch. Then she runs.

[00:50:05] Elizabeth Allen: I promote a cat at this point? I’ve never had a cat that’s spite shit.

[00:50:13] Rachel Moore: Oh, no!

[00:50:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: you didn’t have my cats because Kashmir and corduroy. Something about my spirit makes my animals be like,


[00:50:21] Elizabeth Allen: I think it’s a you problem, Tanya.

[00:50:23] Tanya Ballard Brown: They’re like, I’m going to learn you how we’re going to do this in here. Cause you are not in charge. I know you think you were in charge because you work and earn the money and own all the things.

[00:50:32] However, you are not in charge

[00:50:33] Rachel Moore: However,

[00:50:34] Tanya Ballard Brown: and I’m going to show you one more time. When I saw it today and when, and this is the first time it was in the middle of the kitchen floor, it was the littlest, I had to laugh because I was like, she was like, I know. Like I’ve been leaving them in these other places, but she’s acting like she ain’t hearing what I’m saying about how you’re not getting to leave me in this house.

[00:50:54] Rachel Moore: her bowel

[00:50:55] Elizabeth Allen: you see them. She wants to make sure they’re in your face.

[00:50:59] Rachel Moore: and her bowel control just be like, just a little dingleberry.

[00:51:01] Tanya Ballard Brown: Because it’s always, it’s

[00:51:03] Elizabeth Allen: kiss for you.

[00:51:04] Tanya Ballard Brown: pile of anything. It’s always one little, I’m like dog,

[00:51:10] Elizabeth Allen: A little Hershey kiss for you. I

[00:51:14] Tanya Ballard Brown: You are doing way too much. This is petty. And my cousins always joke, you got the right dog. Cause they were like, that’s your dog. I’m like, what you trying to do?

[00:51:26] Don’t yell at me. I am petty and I will get you together in a way. Just like my dog gets me together when I leave her in here and she don’t want to be left.

[00:51:38] Elizabeth Allen: think about you before you had a dog and there wasn’t just like shit all over your house. I like thinking about those times.

[00:51:46] Rachel Moore: That said it all.

[00:51:49] Tanya Ballard Brown: I got a call, like when I’m sick or I have guests coming in, I know that I want house to be like super clean. I have some women who will come in and clean for me. And I’d like to use them. I use them periodically.

[00:52:01] And I’m like, now I got to have these people come in here and do a deep scrub. Yeah. But his dog,

[00:52:07] because I

[00:52:07] Rachel Moore: gonna do it as soon as they’re gone.

[00:52:09] Tanya Ballard Brown: will,

[00:52:10] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, that

[00:52:11] Tanya Ballard Brown: I don’t take her to doggy daycare. I do have a friend, her friend Isha, who barked with her, I think on one of our other sessions Isha’s mom works at home and, she loves dogs.

[00:52:19] She can go over there for the day, but you don’t want to burden somebody else with your dog. And I’m like, also, I’m just leaving the house for a couple of hours. You are nine pounds. Lay on these rents, you got pillows, beds, and her stuff. Cause she’s pretty good about not getting on furniture or whatever.

[00:52:38] Unless I

[00:52:38] Elizabeth Allen: That’s nine pounds full of poop. You do. You’re underestimating her. Okay.

[00:52:44] Rachel Moore: That’s right. We will have to everybody send me, in our Slack, send me the latest picture or a picture of your animal. Because we are going to put these on our Instagram for Just Trust Me podcast. Because we know we’re not alone. We do not trust these animals.

[00:52:59] They are selling a shit. And exactly. But as we wrap today let us do round Robin. I just mentioned our Instagram Tanya, where can we find and follow you online?

[00:53:09] so much.

[00:53:09] Tanya Ballard Brown: You can follow me at T D O U B L E B T double B on all the places. And if you’re so inclined, though you will not see pictures of poop in the middle of the floor because I don’t, I am A little more acculturated than that. We has a little more class than that. You can follow Butterbean Ballard Brown on Instagram or TikTok.

[00:53:33] Don’t bother. She’s on TikTok, but Instagram is where you get the most current stuff of her.

[00:53:40] Rachel Moore: I think y’all should go put a poop emoji on her Instagram, the dog’s Instagram. Just be like, I heard the podcast, I know what’s going on.

[00:53:47] Elizabeth Allen: I know there’s some poop going on.

[00:53:49] Rachel Moore: There’s some shit going on. Elizabeth, how about you? Where can we find and follow you?

[00:53:53] Elizabeth Allen: follow me at ElizabethAllen1001 at LinkedIn. That’s

[00:53:59] Rachel Moore: Especially if you’re a recruiter who has an awesome content job and

[00:54:03] Elizabeth Allen: Please give me a job, please!

[00:54:05] Rachel Moore: please to hire her, please. And then I am Rachel Moore. Rachel has the mic that is my handle everywhere. Rachel has the M I C not K E Y M O U S E.

Anh Nguyen about Non-Profit Marketing

JTM006 Anh Nguyen

[00:54:36] Rachel Moore: I’m speaking today on the Just Trust Me marketing podcast with a marketer who I have known. Anh when did we first meet? I think we knew each other on social, but didn’t we meet at a conference?

[00:54:48] We finally were able to meet because our booths happened to be at the same

[00:54:52] Anh Nguyen: Yes, and I think that was, gosh 2017?

[00:54:56] You and I had connected already via social like on chats and things. And I was like, this chick is cool. I need to stay connected to her. And then, yes, the one of my clients, my main clients had a conference in the Denver area that year. And somehow I found out that you would be there too.

[00:55:15] Rachel Moore: I was working with a client of mine,

[00:55:17] Anh Nguyen: and so I messaged you and said, Hey, we’re going to be at the same thing. So that’s how we met in person. And the rest is history.

[00:55:25] Rachel Moore: Yes, it is. So can you give us a brief introduction about you what space you’re in the marketing ecosystem and tell us a bit more about who you are?

[00:55:33] Anh Nguyen: Yes, absolutely. I’m Anh Nguyen. And I started my marketing career really more in the advertising space working with large, major companies in the Houston area. And that’s when digital marketing and digital tools and solutions were just starting to come out.

[00:55:50] And I was like, Oh, this is the next evolution. And I loved it because You could have data, right? So we’re such data geeks because I came from the world of newspapers. I didn’t know who saw the ad. I didn’t, we could put a code maybe into the ad and ask them to refer to that so that we could track it that way.

[00:56:13] But there was no way to truly track and measure if what you were doing was giving you your ROI. It was just throwing money into a black hole. And so when we started having these digital capabilities, I was like, Oh, this is going to be a game changer for everybody. And so that’s where my shift into digital marketing started.

[00:56:34] Rachel Moore: Same.

[00:56:36] Anh Nguyen: even a thing back then. And so I’ve had to learn a lot along the way on my own and through my colleagues like yourself. And as you already know, too, as most marketers nowadays, things can change in a heartbeat.

[00:56:50] So you can’t really claim that you’re an expert because things are constantly changing. And so I went out on my own and really focused on the B2B space. Cause that’s what I knew businesses selling to other businesses and helping them to understand the value of social media too, right?

[00:57:08] Because they’re like, Oh, we’re selling to other businesses. We don’t need social media. Yes, you do. So that’s been a lot of my focus for the last probably, oh, gosh, I don’t know. I know almost 10 years. But lately, I really wanted to shift to focusing more on working with purpose driven ventures and startups.

[00:57:27] And then I’ve always had a soft spot for nonprofits. And in fact, right now, I’m at a crossroads and trying to figure out how I can take that. All of my knowledge that I have, not just in marketing, but in business consulting and things and how do I take that and help nonprofits? Because let’s be real.

[00:57:45] They don’t have a lot of resources and they can’t afford to hire someone like you or me. And the larger nonprofits don’t need someone like me because they have the resources to hire their own in house. And so that’s where I am right now. I still have business to business clients. But I was starting to get really burned out.

[00:58:03] I just felt like my creativity had been squashed and I was looking for a client or clients who I could continue to be really inspired by and work on their content and not feel like, Oh, I’m just churning out content again. And that’s where I am right now. And I feel like I’m not alone.

[00:58:21] I think in conversations with other colleagues who have been in the space about as long as I have they’re feeling the same way. So I don’t know if it’s the timeframe that we’ve been in the space or the types of clients we work with, or maybe it is our age at this point where we’re like, Oh, what are we doing?

[00:58:39] That makes an impact aside from helping someone sell software.

[00:58:45] Rachel Moore: Yeah. No it’s exhausting. I think. Part of why. I created this podcast is, the first portion of it. We just talk shit about marketing out there. And some of it’s cathartic where it’s just I just need to like, Oh my God, I need to point and laugh or point and Ooh, and, or whatever we need to do, however we need to react to it.

[00:59:02] But it’s just a lot. It’s always, and it feels like marketing feels like one of those those roles where there’s always scope creep. Oh, do this, but I, then I need you to, cause, cause it just, you and I both know this. It touches sales. It touches ops. It, and even just the separate portions of marketing aspects, there’s content, but then that’s social and then that’s, media and then that’s, website and there, it just, we’re exhausted.

[00:59:29] Anh Nguyen: I have, and it’s funny you mentioned that because I’ve had companies or people go, Hey, can you take a look at this job description? We’re trying to hire a marketer. And I’ll look and I’m like, you want to hire five people here. This is not a one person thing. And they go, what are you talking about?

[00:59:45] I’m like, this is complete scope creep. Like you said, you can’t expect your marketer to be. An experienced graphic designer and know Adobe suite as well. Sure, there are marketers out there or vice versa, like graphic designers who are marketers, but the majority of us really want to focus on what we want to focus on, which is our expertise in marketing and that’s a whole different animal than creating graphics or really being creating blogs. Or being that email marketer, people are like, that’s an actual role. Yes, that’s an actual role because there’s so much more than just sending out emails. You’ve got to segment your list. You’ve got to do all these things. It blows people’s minds when you start mentioning that it’s not just a one person job, but unfortunately, even in larger companies, you will find that marketing teams are small and expected to run very lean and then expected to give these top results and get their hands slapped because, we’re not meeting these goals and it’s marketing’s fault. No, it’s not marketing’s fault. You’ve got unrealistic expectations. And a team that is running way too lean. You cannot expect. Two people to do what seven people should be doing.

[01:00:59] Rachel Moore: exactly. Yeah. And I want to get into, talking about just like infrastructure of marketing, but I know you mentioned you have a heart for nonprofits and I’ve known this about you which I just love to. And by the way, I am going to give you a chance to shout out one that you’re working with in particular if you want, but I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, about, so you got, it’s a different, ballgame.

[01:01:22] It’s a different animal, right? To do marketing for a nonprofit. You already mentioned a couple aspects of it where it’s if it’s a smaller nonprofit, not like a total global one, like Red Cross or, things like that, but. You are relying on the lean teams, the lean budgets, and you’re trying to move mountains with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, not so much funding.

[01:01:44] Can you share a little bit about that, about why marketing for a non profit is different than, say, a normal B2B?

[01:01:52] Anh Nguyen: Yeah. It is, and it isn’t right. And it’s, especially for nonprofits and in as marketers, what do we always tell people? It’s about the stories you tell and whether you’re B2B, B2C, it’s about the stories you tell and nonprofits. So here’s where it’s different. Nonprofits have a lot of stories that they can tap into.

[01:02:12] And so it’s a little bit easier in that sense. Is having that resource, those stories. But unfortunately, many of them, as you said, smaller ones, especially community independent ones don’t have the resources or they don’t know what they don’t know. And so then they, their focus is always on, oh, how do we get people to our event, how do we get people to fund, donate, and it’s.

[01:02:36] If you tell those stories of the people that you are serving and how you are making an impact helps your market. Absolutely.

[01:02:45] , it’s truly about storytelling.

[01:02:47] And so often when I speak to smaller nonprofits, it’s like an eye opener and they go Oh yeah. Okay. And I’ll use an example. I periodically will do pro bono work where I’ll take on a nonprofit for a 90 day span where I sit, I like meet weekly with their social media person or team and help them.

[01:03:06] Audit help them decide what it is. And so snap is one that I worked with a few years ago spay neuter assistance program. So they help people through either free spay neutering programs or low cost veterinarian services for their animals. Exactly well, I happen to have a person who really like.

[01:03:27] Listened right and took on what I was showing her and teaching her how to do. And she got it. She, so through all the storytelling for the last few years, they have been increased their brand awareness. They’ve increased their donations. In fact, we asked her to speak at social media day during COVID because it was virtual to share exactly what she was doing and how successful it had helped them.

[01:03:50] And she was one person doing all this using Canva, right? But she took it to heart and said, okay, I’m going to go collect all the stories of the animals and their human beings that we serve. And that’s what we share. So every email she sends out has a story. Every single post has a story so you can tie it back into why you’re donating.

[01:04:12] And that is it in a nutshell for nonprofits. And I think a lot of the challenges are staffing resources, right? How do we collect these stories? They don’t or perhaps they don’t know what stories to collect.

[01:04:27] Rachel Moore: It, so this whole podcast and my whole push on marketing anything and even my services stuff, but it’s all about trust which, which is nebulous in marketing because we all know. I think most of us, and some of us don’t, even if we know when we’re being sold to.

[01:04:41] But it’s, there’s that when you’re like, okay, I’ve got a product or service. I’m going to sell you. I want you to buy. So you are trying to, okay, but trust me when I say that this is worth your investment. I’m super interested to hear because nonprofits. there’s not really a tangible, rarely would be a tangible, I got this because I exchanged money.

[01:05:03] Instead you’re buying or investing with your money, something that’s I may never actually personally feel or see a result from this, but I know it’s helping somebody else.

[01:05:13] Anh Nguyen: Oh, for sure. Yes, I think trust is very important. Trust is a very. important part of just community building overall. And when we think of marketing and when I think of marketing, that’s what I think of it is community building. And there’s an old salesperson’s mantra that’s, they, people buy from you if they know and trust you, so that still stands.

[01:05:35] So in the nonprofit space. People buying from you as they’re donating to you and how are they buying into your mission? Again, we’re going back to storytelling and you showing that impact that your organization is making. And that’s how you get that buy in. That’s how they trust it. Oh, my dollars are going to what exactly I think it’s going to.

[01:05:58] Again, for example, spay, neuter they show the stories of animals being served. And when I served on the board of the Arthritis Foundation, right? A lot of what we did was we shared the stories of the children that we serve. While there are more adults who suffer from arthritis than there are children Oh, my God, how can your heart not break for a child who’s suffering from arthritis?

[01:06:19] Because this is an autoimmune disease in their case, it’s never going to be because they were so old and they were, developed arthritis probably will in a few years.

[01:06:28] Rachel Moore: Same.

[01:06:29] Anh Nguyen: So those are the kinds of stories that we shared because then people who donated could see the impact.

[01:06:35] The other piece of it that we shared often was the research, right? Oftentimes it is, again, people who suffer from autoimmune arthritis, there has to be a lot of research that goes into the meds that help them with their, quality of life. And so that’s the other piece that was the storytelling.

[01:06:52] It just all goes back to storytelling. And in fact I’m going to go ahead and talk about nerdy girl success. And that is the nonprofit that I currently am involved with and serve on the board of directors. And we have programs focused on career and leadership for high school age, young women.

[01:07:11] When I first came across the organization, I was like, Oh my gosh, I wish there were these types of programs when I was in high school, holy moly. I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do when I was in high school.

[01:07:20] And plus I was in high school so long ago that roles for women were limited, right? Oh, a woman scientist. You got it.

[01:07:29] Rachel Moore: More like an administrative assistant, yeah.

[01:07:34] Anh Nguyen: And so we want to show these girls what the possibilities are. Their possibilities are endless. And so we do that by having women who are leaders in business the nonprofit space, whatever they’re in their sector, To talk to the girls about their career journeys.

[01:07:51] We have programming such as how to understand your paycheck how to translate what your skills from high school into a resume onto LinkedIn. All these things that help to prepare them. To be, college students or get into the workforce because again, we are mindful that college is not for everyone.

[01:08:10] And there are a lot of opportunities out there that don’t require a college degree. In fact, in skill trades there’s, a shortage of skill trades. And I would love to see more women in construction, women in plumbing, women in roles and industries that have been historically male dominated,

[01:08:26] the stories are sharing the stories of these young women that we serve. How has it helped them? Where are they now after having gone through some of our programming? Our challenge has been because we’re a fairly young organization compared to others. So going into the sixth year, oftentimes the young women that we’ve served are just now getting into college or just now starting their careers.

[01:08:49] And so it’s that piece of it has been challenging, but that’s the, It right there is to show the impact of what we’ve been doing is sharing those stories.

[01:08:59] Rachel Moore: I was going to say too, there’s another aspect to it. We were, cause we were talking early on in, in our discussion about having your marketing buttoned up, making sure your infrastructure of it’s solid. Do you find that figures in as well? So you can tell the stories, and the more human results.

[01:09:14] But if you are asking particularly people donating how important is it to make sure your marketing is buttoned up and polished and organized and,

[01:09:24] Anh Nguyen: For marketers like you and I, the brand consistency and brand awareness and brand identity is so important. And that’s part of it so that it’s easily identifiable as, Oh, This is so and so organization. Nonprofits and any business even still struggles with creating a roadmap of content, a roadmap of to do with marketing, right?

[01:09:49] Okay. So we’ve got these emails going out can we segment the emails a little bit better so that not everybody’s getting the same. Message overall general message, because we’ve got a segment that should be, the donors who’ve already donated to you. So your message to them is going to be a little bit different than the people that are just interested in the organization or volunteers who have volunteered with the organization before your messaging is going to be different as well.

[01:10:18] So that’s all that needs to be buttoned up. And I realize saying all that, again, nonprofits, small businesses, even regular, normal size businesses are going whole. That’s overwhelming for us to sit there and do all this, but if you. Don’t, if you don’t have the appropriate messaging to the appropriate parties or groups, people are going to disconnect.

[01:10:44] They’re going to unsubscribe because they’re going, Oh, this content isn’t relevant to me. Why am I getting this general message? I don’t want to hear from them anymore. So you’ve lost a potential. Supporter same thing across social media too, right? Again, I know it’s super easy. Let’s just post the same thing on Instagram, on Facebook, on LinkedIn, because we don’t have time.

[01:11:05] The audiences are different on LinkedIn. You could possibly be speaking to potential board members, potential corporate sponsors volunteers. Because it’s such a professional network on Instagram, it’s going to Put people who are looking to perhaps get into a board role because they’re younger professionals and they haven’t done this.

[01:11:27] Facebook, again, I’m preaching to the choir when I’m talking to you, but I think these are things that nonprofits and businesses in general don’t consider. In fact, I’m going to use a quick example. I’ve got these two little kids. I shouldn’t say kids. They’re high school boys that came to my door.

[01:11:42] And I was so impressed with the fact that they came to my door and said they had a business detailing cars, right? Washing and detailing cars. Like they were like, we have a business. And so I started talking to them a little bit about the marketing and I was like, how are you guys marketing?

[01:11:57] And he’s we’re on Tik TOK. And I said, okay, I said, I know you guys are in high school and you guys are love TikTok, but the people who can afford to buy this, your service or people like me, and I’m going to tell you right now, I’m not on TikTok, maybe scroll through the rabbit hole of TikToks and stuff, but you’re not going to really find this there.

[01:12:19] He’s Oh, okay. It goes if you have any suggestions for me, I’m happy to hear it. And like I said, that’s why I was so impressed with these two kids. I was like, come detail my car today.

[01:12:29] Rachel Moore: I love that you immediately are like, okay, yes or no. I’ll think about that. But tell me how you’re marketing yourselves. This is so you, because I know, and we always were like, anytime we see something they’re like, okay, how are they doing that? What’s their content strategy? And what channels are they using? I know they’re doing door to door, but what are you doing digitally?

[01:12:45] Anh Nguyen: what I told him. I was like, there’s got to be a more efficient way to do this than door to door. People are afraid to answer their doors nowadays too. I wanted to share one other quick thing. I just saw LinkedIn this morning. It was. Snoop and Martha Stewart, it was a Bic lighter campaign.

[01:12:59] Have you seen that yet? Oh my gosh. It was so cool. It’s the lighter, right? Like for just summer nights for candles or party time, which is. Snoop and then Candles is Martha Stewart.

[01:13:10] And the visual is very appealing because it’s two different colors on each side. And it’s just such a great campaign. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, these are the types of campaigns that I would love to emulate. And so I had to bring that up because I know we like to talk about things that are just fun and successful and

[01:13:28] Rachel Moore: Exactly.

[01:13:29] Anh Nguyen: not the norm because you think big letter people really, Oh, it’s just bigger, right?

[01:13:35] Rachel Moore: Is right next to the cash register. That’s where they are it’s no let’s talk about it and just definitely adds more of an appeal to it. But that’s just really innovative. We thank you so much for spending some time with us today and hopefully people have been listening.

[01:13:48] Whether they are marketing for a nonprofit or more B2C, B2B, a business that has dollars or teams or whatever tons of great insights. Where can our listeners find and follow you, Ms. Ma’am?

[01:13:59] Anh Nguyen: mostly on LinkedIn. I am very active on LinkedIn and that’s been my platform of choice since I left Twitter or

[01:14:09] Rachel Moore: I

[01:14:09] Anh Nguyen: Twitter. Cause you and I met on Twitter and I’ve, that was such a great, there were so many great communities because of the Twitter chats and things like that, and I’m so sad that it’s not that space any longer.

[01:14:21] And

[01:14:21] Rachel Moore: same. I know.

[01:14:22] Anh Nguyen: LinkedIn is where you’ll find me mostly.

[01:14:26] Nerdygirlsuccess. com. Yes, easy to find us, right? It’s not org or people are like, wait, it’s a non profit, but it’s not org. I said, yes, but how often do you actually type in org? Most people think com. that was an actually genius marketing move on whoever did that when they founded it.

[01:14:43] But if you type in org, it will still redirect.

[01:14:45] Rachel Moore: Excellent.