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Butterbean’s Birthday, Books, and Foolish Brands

the Just Trust Me marketing podcast. The words "Just Trust Me" are sliding down a bar and falling off onto hands raised up to catch them.

Show Notes

Tanya’s publishing extraordinaire sister-in-law Jo Dodd joins the ladies this week as we discuss the branding minefield that is April Fool’s Day. And Just Trust Me’s favorite intern Butterbean Ballard Brown reminds us (repeatedly) that it’s her birthday as we discuss the world of children’s book publishing and the unknown realities of menopause. And Tanya yet again makes overtures to proclaimed actor, Jeffrey Wright. It wouldn’t be an episode of Just Trust Me without it!

Featured Guest of the Pod


[00:00:01] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jeffrey, you’re from DC. I’m in DC. What’s up, dude? Let’s go out and have a drink. The rest will happen. All we need to do is set eyes on each other. The rest, the magic will happen.

[00:00:13] Tanya Ballard Brown: JTM 008 – Seg1

[00:00:14] Rachel Moore: We’re back with Just Trust Me, the podcast, and this is true, we would never dream of pulling an April Fool’s Day shit ever on anyone because we need to put that date to bed finally .Speaking of which, let’s do our host intros first. We do have a guest today who we’ll introduce in a moment but let’s do our host intros first. I want each of us to introduce ourselves and also share when we got. By an April Fool’s Day scam. And it could be this year, it could be ten years ago. And all the ugliness and messiness therein, if there is some. Does anybody wish to go first?

[00:00:49] Elizabeth Allen: I’ll go first.

[00:00:50] Rachel Moore: Bring it. Elizabeth, go.

[00:00:52] Elizabeth Allen: Alright. So I’ll start. I didn’t have any crazy one, but first of all, my name is Elizabeth Allen. I am currently an unemployed content marketing manager. April [00:01:00] Fool’s Day has never been a big one for me. Last year, my, at the time, nine year old daughter thought she was, we, I woke up at I don’t know, it must have been three o’clock in the morning and I heard her running up and down the stairs.

[00:01:12] Elizabeth Allen: And I was like, What the fuck is she doing? It’s three o’clock in the morning. And like me, she likes to sleep. And turns out that she was setting us up for some things. And I think my favorite one was when I went to go brush my teeth in the morning and turned on the faucet in the bathroom. It ran red. Because she had done something with like food dye. She had done this little thing where she had Googled it. And so you could add food dye to it. So the water just ran red. It was very cute because it ran red for like literally half a second. And that was it. That was the biggest, that was the biggest time I got.

[00:01:45] Rachel Moore: Wow! Respect!

[00:01:46] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. But you know what? She did a few other things. I can’t even remember, but you could tell she was very proud of herself. And it was the only reason she would wake up early because she is my daughter.

[00:01:55] Rachel Moore: Now, I’m on board with that kind of thing. That’s an internal prank. [00:02:00] Ha.

[00:02:00] Jo: Right.

[00:02:00] Tanya Ballard Brown: A little tiny prank. Yeah.

[00:02:02] Elizabeth Allen: Exactly. It’s not really hurting anybody. I will say I’m one of the big proponents as somebody who has pulled this prank before. I feel very badly about it as I grew up and learned more. Never pull the pregnancy prank. That is very unfeeling and cruel and at the time I will I’ve called myself out for several years now on April Fool’s to say don’t do this because I’ve been that asshole before.

[00:02:25] Elizabeth Allen: Just don’t do it. It’s not cool. You don’t know what people are contending with. So this is my getting on my soapbox and saying do not do the pregnancy prank. It is not nice because you don’t know what people are going through. The end.

[00:02:37] Rachel Moore: Exactly. Well taken and the whole point, it maybe needs to go away, but Tanya, did you have one or, and it’s okay if you don’t, because, again, we pointed out in this podcast you may be savvy in ways that some of us are not in that you don’t get gotten.

[00:02:52] Tanya Ballard Brown: so much savvy as it’s just, I think I’m more cynical.

[00:02:56] Elizabeth Allen: That is true.

[00:02:58] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’m more suspicious and [00:03:00] skeptical and untrusting and like you,

[00:03:04] Elizabeth Allen: Given our QR discussion last week, we know the difference between how we operate and yes, you are definitely the more cynical and suspicious of the few of us.

[00:03:12] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’m always asking when

[00:03:13] Elizabeth Allen: What are you trying to get over on me?

[00:03:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: Right. Which is of course why I will probably get gotten over on worse than anybody else. I can’t, I’m certain that I have been. I have got, because there are times when I can be very wide eyed doe and be like, Oh, really? Oh my God. No, I can’t think of a specific situation.

[00:03:33] Tanya Ballard Brown: And by the way, I’m Tanya Ballard Brown. I’m a journalist. I have learned some things about marketing from these two I was going to say gals, can I say gals,

[00:03:44] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, gals.

[00:03:45] Rachel Moore: We’re gals.

[00:03:45] Tanya Ballard Brown: From these two gals.

[00:03:47] Rachel Moore: Y’all gals.

[00:03:49] Tanya Ballard Brown: But I’m still learning more as we go. And, it’s a a good mashup with what I’m doing every day in terms of trying to get more and better content [00:04:00] out there to more people in eyes,

[00:04:02] Rachel Moore: Well, in turn these two marketers have learned a ton from you. Particularly from the journalism, editing, newsworthiness perspective. And y’all, I’m not just saying that because it’s nice to say. I really mean it. We learn I would say we’ve been on a Slack channel for years altogether. And I’ve learned, I’m so much smarter now because of it.

[00:04:20] Elizabeth Allen: Amen. Same.

[00:04:21] Rachel Moore: But not smart enough to not get gotten by a text I got on April 1st that, and this was this year. I’ve mentioned on this podcast that I get texts and emails from the Trump campaign, because I like to just watch what’s going on and also fuck with his open rates.

[00:04:41] Rachel Moore: So I I got a text y’all the endorphin rush I got when I saw this text. Was that I’m suspending my campaign and I’m like, all right, I don’t fucking click on any of these. Imma click on this one because what the hell is going on? And of course he’s like, ah, you didn’t think I was actually suspending [00:05:00] my campaign.

[00:05:00] Rachel Moore: And I’m like, well, I had to check. That was me getting got on this April Fool’s Day of the year 2024. And I’ll just leave that there, but that’s how I got, I wish I would have gotten got with a better feeling one, but at least it gave me a little bump before reality sank back in.

[00:05:17] Elizabeth Allen: I feel like that’s a hope a lot of us have, so I can’t blame you on that one because I would definitely, also like knowing his ego. I don’t think I would be able to believe it easily, but I would hope in the deepest parts of my heart that it was true

[00:05:32] Rachel Moore: I know. I was like, maybe it’s cause of Truth Social something happened. Who knows?

[00:05:37] Elizabeth Allen: Or, like all of the legal issues he’s going through, maybe. But apparently that has, that’s no concern for him. You can just keep running for president.

[00:05:46] Rachel Moore: Exactly. Nay. You’re just making history left and right. Well, we are joined the three of us, you always hear on this podcast. We’re joined today by a guest. And this is someone who I’ve only recently learned about. Our illustrious co [00:06:00] host Tanya Ballard Brown is intimately familiar with this person.

[00:06:03] Rachel Moore: And also, I’m really excited to talk to her. I think we’re all going to find out a lot of cool stuff. This whole podcast Is based on trust in marketing, and she’s going to offer some awesome insights. Jo Dodd, welcome to the podcast. We’re so happy to have you joining us in our special guest seat today.

[00:06:19] Jo: Thanks so much. I’m happy to be here. Excited for the conversation.

[00:06:22] Rachel Moore: And I do think we need to talk about how you’re affiliated with Tanya. Can we share that? Cause I just think that’s fun, but we, you obviously have awesome insights to share, but also there’s a personal tie and take it away.

[00:06:34] Jo: Yeah, absolutely. So Tanya is my sister in law. My husband, Terrence, is Tanya’s brother. That’s how we go back. Gosh, Terrence and I have now been married nearly 28 years. So it’s been a long time,

[00:06:46] Rachel Moore: Woo. Congrats, man. That is a

[00:06:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: haul.

[00:06:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: He trapped her over here in the states.

[00:06:50] Jo: Yeah.

[00:06:50] Tanya Ballard Brown: We’re not letting her go back. But we are very glad that he trapped her because Jo is great.

[00:06:56] Elizabeth Allen: Podcast listeners can’t see, but if you see Jo, you’re like, I’m [00:07:00] very confused by how it could be 28 years because she looks like she’s about 24 years old.

[00:07:05] Rachel Moore: Yes, you do.

[00:07:07] Elizabeth Allen: So good for you, Jo..

[00:07:08] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jo is definitely well kept. I can, I will say that she definitely is well kept. Yes.

[00:07:12] Jo: I’m far enough back that you can’t see the wrinkles, but you get in close, you’ll see wrinkles. I can tell you.

[00:07:18] Elizabeth Allen: Between Tanya’s genes and your genes, your kids are in luck, man. Oh, so jealous.

[00:07:25] Rachel Moore: We’re all jealous of you being related to her anyway, because that’s pretty cool. That’s right. Jo, I want to ask you I gave your name, that’s really all I said, and said, oh, by the way, you’re related to Tanya, but would you mind introducing yourself a bit more in depth, and if you are inclined, share a way that you got by an April Fool’s Day scam. Jo, tell us more about yourself. Nice.

[00:07:48] Jo: Author. I’ve self published five books in the past three years. I’m also a coach and I actually have a full time job as well. So I’m doing the juggle at the moment of doing everything. I work for a Fortune 500 [00:08:00] company and I lead a I’m in learning and development. So, yeah, so that’s it.

[00:08:04] Jo: I’m doing both worlds at the moment, learning a lot. And as far as April Fools, I think I’ve always been the one I’m like your daughter, Elizabeth, cause I’m always the one playing the pranks. I have four sons. So over the years, I’ve definitely, they’ve got me, to varying degrees, but I think the best one they ever did is, thankfully my mom laughs about it now, but when she came out to stay with us one time, I was I’m just very I love a good, trick and a good laugh.

[00:08:31] Jo: And we had a basement that she was staying downstairs in the basement and she just happened to be here for April Fool’s Day. And so the night before my oldest son and I, and this was years ago, we put like cling wrap on the door. From she came like running up the stairs and bam, into this into this cling wrap. We’re like, April Fools. She’s just like, I could have hurt myself. I’m like, yeah, but you didn’t.

[00:08:51] Elizabeth Allen: I will say that’s better than the cling wrap on the toilet joke. That can go disastrously.

[00:08:57] Jo: Yeah. Yeah. [00:09:00] I it was funny, but yeah, my mom still probably has not forgiven me for that, but she does laugh at it.

[00:09:06] Elizabeth Allen: Hey, she walked into a house with four boys. It was all her on April 1st.

[00:09:09] Rachel Moore: Exactly. Wow. And props to you too. So are you, do you have any pets that are not male, by the way? Are you totally outnumbered at home?

[00:09:16] Jo: I have one pet and that was the thing. So three years ago we got a puppy and I was like, it has to be female. I am not having any more testosterone. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. I’m getting a female dog. So yeah, we have Luna. She’s lovely.

[00:09:30] Rachel Moore: Excellent.

[00:09:31] Elizabeth Allen: So so her and Luna a team against the rest of the men.

[00:09:34] Jo: That’s it. We’re like done.

[00:09:35] Rachel Moore: That’s Wonder Twin powers activate.

[00:09:37] Rachel Moore: Okay.. Well, and Jo, we’re gonna, we’re definitely going to dig into a little bit more too, cause we want to hear about your latest project. And also we’re going to talk to you about you’re in book marketing, not only an author, but I saw that you have a seven step published process.

[00:09:50] Rachel Moore: I’m super interested to learn about and of course, authoring and books and things figure highly, greatly into trust in marketing . Before we get there though, thank you. [00:10:00] We are going to deviate. This is coming out after April 1st, otherwise known as April Fool’s Day 2024. We are going to talk a little bit about the stuff we saw in the landscape generally this last week.

[00:10:14] Rachel Moore: Elizabeth, I’m going to hand it over to you because I think you had some excellent, I didn’t even see all these examples, but aside probably that I saw the Trump text, that, that gave me that little bump in my mood. But what else were we seeing on April Fool’s Day? And let’s dissect some of these things because ugh.

[00:10:29] Elizabeth Allen: So there are some of them that are just fun and innocent fun, which I can appreciate you see them and you’re like, there’s no way this is real. It’s fun and silly. And the brand is just like leaning into the April Fool’s Day thing. One of those was the Duolingo toilet paper. So they were basically doing toilet paper like how you learn a language by using toilet paper that had the Spanish language, like translation imprinted on it. I think that’s really cute. And

[00:10:56] Tanya Ballard Brown: You’re going to wipe your ass with this paper.

[00:10:58] Elizabeth Allen: Yes.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Rachel Moore: Only after you’ve learned it, you’re like, all right, I’m done.

[00:11:02] Tanya Ballard Brown: But this wasn’t real. But even so I’m like, why would I want to wipe my ass with the words? It feels like I’m being disrespectful to the language.

[00:11:10] Elizabeth Allen: Okay fair. But it seemed like a fun, like irreverent type of April Fool’s joke. Like most people saw it and was like, ha, that’s hilarious. Cute Duolingo. And I will say Duolingo has an amazing social media team. Like they are on top of it. I applied to them. They didn’t want me. And I’m very sad because I would love to work on that team because they are very funny.

[00:11:32] Elizabeth Allen: So that one I really appreciated . The one that I had it wasn’t an ad. It was a LinkedIn post that I took a little bit more umbridge with was Chili Piper had posted a long ass LinkedIn post basically saying they were demanding everybody returned to the office. And you have to get through the entire thing.

[00:11:53] Elizabeth Allen: It actually is like funny. Like this is one of those things because I don’t work there. I thought it was funny. So it was great. But I can imagine if I [00:12:00] worked for Chili Piper, like having that moment or Oh my God, what am I going to do about like my childcare and like my life and all of my obligations.

[00:12:07] Elizabeth Allen: So they did this whole post and it was very long about the fact that they were demanding everybody return to the office and we’re going to have so much fun. And then it was a bunch of pictures of empty offices, which that was, I think, the moment that you realize that okay, this is this is not right.

[00:12:22] Elizabeth Allen: Like it was a dead empty office that just said happy return to work. But because I think we’ve seen so many of those totally tone deaf posts from companies on LinkedIn over the last couple of years about returning to the office, it feels less funny. It feels more real, right? So I wonder, I went through and they said if you work for Chili Piper, say what you’re excited for.

[00:12:45] Elizabeth Allen: And it seemed like when the last time I looked at it, a handful of people seemed like they were in on the joke and they were having fun with it, but I don’t know, we’ve seen shit that’s so close to this and so tone deaf that it was a weird move to make [00:13:00] for an April Fool’s joke for a company.

[00:13:03] Tanya Ballard Brown: It feels mean. It feels more mean than funny.

[00:13:06] Elizabeth Allen: It feels a little mean. Yeah. And it feels a little too close to reality and what we’ve been seeing to have be obviously an April Fool’s joke. I think that’s the thing with a lot of these brands. It has to obviously be an April Fool’s joke .

[00:13:19] Rachel Moore: Well, and the worst part, what if this ages poorly? What if they at some point are like, Nope, yeah, we’re actually having you return to office. That wasn’t a joke. Ha. Yeah, you’re right. I think it probably would have been better if they hadn’t done it.

[00:13:32] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. And then there was another one, which was fun because it was obviously Photoshopped. And I think that’s. If you’re going to do this, you have to make it very obviously Photoshopped. So Royal Caribbean did a thing where on their newest ship, they were doing a, what was called a Ship n’ Slide. And it was basically these giant slides coming down off the cruise ship, which is like floors and floors into the ocean. Now it was so obviously Photoshopped that’s what made it funny. Nobody’s being [00:14:00] hurt by this. It’s very funny. And because they made sure to hit just the right amount of lack of reality. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but it was clearly photoshopped. And so that made it funny. So that one I thought was great.

[00:14:14] Elizabeth Allen: And then another one I thought was very funny was Barnes and Noble had made a grand announcement that they were finally changing their name to Barnes and Nobles. Because you know how so many people call them Barnes and Nobles, even though it’s Barnes and Nobles, goddammit. That was funny. And there was like, like a Photoshop of one of their stores and it just had the S like written in red by somebody’s handwriting. It was very funny. Those are the ones that I think are very cool and very fun.

[00:14:44] Elizabeth Allen: And are in the spirit of April Fool’s Day or in the spirit of what April Fool’s Day should be when it comes to marketing. The Chili Piper one, less so. And that brought me back to in 2018 in the makeup world, because you know I’m big into makeup. There was [00:15:00] a big crazy upset about the brand Tarte.

[00:15:03] Elizabeth Allen: So Tarte for years had been accused of doing the same boring palettes over and over again. They were very neutral. If you ever go on Tarte’s website and look, it’s a lot of neutral palettes. They don’t have a lot of personality to them. They focus more on the actual packaging than they do on the colors inside and the color story inside.

[00:15:25] Elizabeth Allen: And in 2018, this was at a time where people wanted color, people wanted something unique. And so we were all looking for what’s the next unique color story . Let me tell you, I have a fucking drawer of eyeshadow palettes of me waiting for the next unique color story. Okay. So on April 1st in 2018, Tarte had decided it was going to announce its Tartelette eyeshadow palette that was this gorgeous color story of blues, like blues and greens. It was beautiful. And it was what people had been [00:16:00] asking from Tarte for forever.

[00:16:03] Rachel Moore: I would totally wear these.

[00:16:05] Elizabeth Allen: You looked it up, right? They’re beautiful. It’s a gorgeous palette and that was where they got smacked in the ass because everybody was like, oh my God, that’s gorgeous. I will buy that immediately. And they’re like,

[00:16:17] Rachel Moore: Oops.

[00:16:17] Elizabeth Allen: Happy April Fools

[00:16:19] Rachel Moore: Oh jeez, mean!

[00:16:21] Elizabeth Allen: And then I think where they messed up the marketing is they didn’t just go back and be like, you know what? We’re going to fucking make this palette.

[00:16:28] Tanya Ballard Brown: Like, you the all liked it so much, we’ll make it. You liked it so much, it was a joke, but we’ll make it.

[00:16:34] Elizabeth Allen: Exactly. But instead they were like, April Fools. And then just moved on. And people talked about that for months. Cause they’re like, that was the palette I wanted. And I don’t understand how any brand is like, I’m not going to capitalize on this. telling you what they want.

[00:16:52] Elizabeth Allen: It was bad enough that Tarte had been telling them for years that they wanted less basic palettes. But when they tell you [00:17:00] this color story is precisely what we want, I would buy this today. And instead they just laughed it off and they’re like, that was our April Fool’s joke.

[00:17:07] Elizabeth Allen: And then you never heard from it again. Then Tarte made like what they thought was a version of this palette, like they made a blue palette, but it was so bland and boring. All you had to do was take the colors in your April Fool’s joke, graphic and make them happen. And everybody would have been happy.

[00:17:27] Elizabeth Allen: So it’s a combination between April Fool’s being a weird line, you have to be careful of crossing, right? So it shouldn’t be offensive. You have to be careful of that. You have to be understanding the zeitgeist around it. So like with the return to office thing, like you have to be really careful about is this going to be an issue that we already have with employees, and we don’t want to exacerbate that. Or is this something we already know is a problem with our brand? And instead of just fixing the problem with our brand, we make a joke about it and then just [00:18:00] keep on keeping on

[00:18:01] Rachel Moore: That seems horribly misinformed and it’s like you said. It’s a moment in time. People are crafting like a post or something that’s a moment in time, a blip on one day without thinking. It just seems like a no brainer to us that, and I’d love to hear any opposing opinions on this, but If you find out you’ve got that big where it’s viral, and I can find it on Reddit four years later where you had that instant feedback of oh, I think we just hit a nerve. People would like this from us. Why A, wouldn’t you say, well, let’s go get some R& D and let’s get this thing pushed out. But B, aren’t you just serving up like for your competitors to be like, by the way, everybody wants this color palette.

[00:18:39] Tanya Ballard Brown: We got it over here and it ain’t an April Fool’s joke. Come over to Brand Tanya B to get your blues.

[00:18:48] Elizabeth Allen: So that’s why the whole April Fool’s concept is like such a weird line to tread. And I think so many companies feel like they need to participate in it. And some of them [00:19:00] just should not. Like you should not

[00:19:03] Tanya Ballard Brown: It’s okay to let it come and go.

[00:19:05] Elizabeth Allen: It’s okay to let it come to go. We’ve had that discussion about so many holidays where we’re like, you do not need to post about this holiday. Like it’s not important. 

JTM 008 Part 2

[00:00:00] JTM 008 – Seg 2 (Ad Break)

[00:00:01] Rachel Moore: Jo, I want to give you an opportunity to sound off on the April Fool’s Day thing because you mentioned you’ve worked for, you don’t have to drop names. But what’s your perspective on working with Fortune 500 companies? And is April Fool’s Day even on their radar, do you think? What’s your take on that?

[00:00:18] Jo: I have to be careful because of my outside job. So I will tell you that there was no reference at all. Like it didn’t even come up. Yeah, so it wasn’t on the radar.

[00:00:27] Rachel Moore: And did your brand survive somehow by not referencing April Fool’s Day?

[00:00:32] Jo: Incredibly, yeah.

[00:00:33] Rachel Moore: Stop. I know. Who thought? I thought you had to we like to use the term shoehorn here a lot. I thought you had to shoehorn in a social media post or campaign about a calendar day.

[00:00:43] Jo: And I think that’s too, just from, me running learning from the very beginning, and I am by no means the marketing expert whatsoever, but what I’ve learned in the last four years when starting my own business, I see so much. People are like, Oh, I have the calendar for you. I have all the things called out on the calendar and, just drop your social [00:01:00] media stuff into this. And I’m like, but it doesn’t resonate. Like why? I, no, I’m not going to be like, Oh, Happy Hamburger Day, whatever it’s stupid thing is, it’s no,

[00:01:11] Rachel Moore: You haven’t written a book about a hamburger?

[00:01:13] Jo: Right. If there’s something for me, Book Day, things like that. And, then yes, I might talk about it or I might not, just for me it’s what I resonate with or what is actually more importantly, of course, going to resonate with my audience, which is the most important.

[00:01:27] Rachel Moore: Love it. And our intern is being shown on camera right now, that would be Butterbean. Is today her birthday?

[00:01:32] Elizabeth Allen: Happy birthday, Butterbean.,

[00:01:33] Jo: Happy birthday.

[00:01:35] Tanya Ballard Brown: She is three.

[00:01:36] Elizabeth Allen: She heard me! She heard me!

[00:01:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: She did.

[00:01:40] Rachel Moore: Must get up. Go talk to mom. Well, Jo, let’s talk more about you. Let’s dig into what you’re doing. And of course we have Butterbean standing. She wants to know too. But Tanya mentioned to us and brought it to us when we wanted to have you on the podcast because you’ve got a couple of things going on.

[00:01:55] Rachel Moore: Cause I know obviously you, you have a career in Fortune 500, [00:02:00] but. You’re also apparently working on a project right now, which I want to let you delve into. And apparently, you know how to market the shit out of books. So we want to hear more about that. And because again, this all boils down, God, I think about books and how that itself can infuse trust in all these different ways. But would you like to tell us a little bit about your project that you’re working on right now?

[00:02:22] Jo: Yeah, so I’d love to, so I’ve actually got two things, well, three things going right now. So I’ve just launched my own group coaching course. So it’s the seven step published process and I have four other budding authors in there right now who are writing and so I’m walking them through and it’s basically all of the things I wished I’d have known when I started on my journey.

[00:02:41] Jo: So it’s walking them through the self publishing process. And it just feels really good to be able to help other people along the way without the headaches that I had. So that’s exciting. That’s something that’s going to be ongoing. We’re running this cohort between now and June. And I know for sure that at least [00:03:00] two, if not more, are going to publish their books within this year. I can see it happening and I can, so it’s really awesome. And I have another couple of clients that are about to publish their book later this month. So it’s just great to be able to help other people tell their stories. And that’s what’s been nice about my own business is I’ve let it evolve into what, my, my company’s called Jotopia.

[00:03:21] Jo: And initially I started out, I got furloughed from my job in 2020, as many people did, and I was like, well, what can I do? I don’t know what I’m going to do. And it was this real healing journey for me because I realized I was on the brink of a nervous breakdown.

[00:03:36] Jo: And so there was all this stuff that was within, but what came out of that was that I’m a writer. I’ve known that for forever, but I didn’t take action on it until I was actually forced to stop. So I, I started writing and then got a coaching certificate. And so that sort of led to this. I created Jotopia, but if you’re talking about marketing, like I didn’t really have a vision of like how I was [00:04:00] going to market, where I was going with it or any of that, but what I am proud of is how it’s evolved in the past four years and what I’m working towards now.

[00:04:09] Jo: So within Jotopia, it’s a place where I can publish my books and there are various things, and I’ll tell you about two of the projects that I’m working on. I can do that, but now I can also bring other people along and they can, you know, publish their books. And so I’m encouraging people to tell their stories because I think it’s so important that we tell our own stories.

[00:04:28] Jo: So yeah, so the two projects I have going now that I’m really excited about four of my five books are children’s books. My youngest son, Joseph is, I’m biased, but he’s absolutely gorgeous. He’s just one of those kids that he’s just,

[00:04:41] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’m biased, too. He’s gorgeous.

[00:04:43] Jo: He’s just joy. And he has some health and learning challenges. And one of the biggest things that has helped in the past few years is taking the focus off of that and onto publishing books and like writing his own stories. So we published a book, We All Like Different Things and That’s A-Okay With Me. It [00:05:00] was a picture book that we published back in 2021 and watching his confidence grow as we marketed that book was phenomenal.

[00:05:09] Jo: So I can tell a little bit more about that in a minute, but that’s been just such a heartwarming experience to, to see. And then last year we published a chapter book called The Secret Adventures of Boomer and Rang: The Incredible Time-Traveling Twins. He has the most vivid imagination.

[00:05:26] Jo: It’s really cool. And so to see him now, he’s a published author. He has these incredible ideas for these books. And so now we’re working on the second book in that series because it’s all come so organically and naturally, and I think that’s a part of it too. I’m allowing, I don’t know much, I’ll be very honest.

[00:05:46] Jo: My marketing experience is zero. And so I’ve learned what I’ve learned along the way. But what I’m finding is just like leaning into what feels right and testing things and, testing what resonates with my audience . And it’s the same for Joseph [00:06:00] because he’s seeing, like, when I write about this is, it’s exciting and it feels good.

[00:06:03] Jo: And yeah, we’re about to launch his book, his second book in the series. And we share that journey. So he’s actually about to have his own Instagram account. And we’re going to talk through that. I want to teach him what I know about marketing. And so for him to start to do that at 12 years old is going to be incredible to watch.

[00:06:21] Jo: He’s already actually, he’s. We actually managed to get an interview on Good Morning America online for the first book. And so for him, he was a child that would not raise his hand in the classroom for fear of being wrong. That’s how bad it was. And now the other day he had to do a presentation in his classroom and he literally came home. I said, how did it go? He said, it was fine. He goes, I was a bit nervous, but you know, mom, I’ve been on TV so I can. Yeah, you have.

[00:06:49] Elizabeth Allen: Damn.

[00:06:50] Jo: I can do anything. And so it’s been really cool to watch that growth and then also to help, to see, to give that education for him of how do you market a book and [00:07:00] how do we make this better? And yes, we’re going to make some big mistakes. And, even looking from the last book that we did to this book, okay, what did we not do right in marketing? How did we not hit the goals that we wanted to hit? And what are we going to do different this time?

[00:07:12] Jo: JTM 008 – Seg3 (Ad Break)

[00:07:14] Jo: And then the biggest project that’s like near and dear to my heart is a book called Menoshine Menoshine : Because No One Should Have to Pause. Yeah, I just turned 50 in September and I am just, I don’t know. It was a couple of years ago. I started, I had no idea what perimenopause was at all. And so all these ideas, once I found out and, you know, I think it’s becoming more and more talked about now. Last year, it just came to me, all of these, I love writing silly poems, call them sweary little poems. I love dropping F bombs and, swearing in my poems.

[00:07:46] Rachel Moore: Woman after our own heart.

[00:07:48] Tanya Ballard Brown: We cusses on this podcast.

[00:07:48] Jo: Which is why I love it, I was like, yeah, oh come on. Fuck yeah. So I, last year I started writing these sweary little poems from Perry and Menopause the sneaky snarky sisters who love to [00:08:00] make you feel like shit. And that then led to this I don’t know, and again, this was I know I’m all over the place here, but this is a good example of marketing gone wrong because I jumped in.

[00:08:11] Jo: I was all excited, set up a Facebook group, all this stuff. I had all these things in my head, but no real clear direction of where I was taking this. And I started my own podcast and I, I started things going, but didn’t really have a really good plan behind it of what I was going to do and what was the end outcome.

[00:08:28] Jo: And I got to, that was this time last year, and I got to about July, I was also launching the other book, there was just too much going on, I didn’t have enough focus, and so I pulled back on the Menoshine piece and I’m proud that I did, and I, sent my emails out to everybody hey, I’m taking a pause I’m going to focus on my son Joseph and his book for a while. But now I feel ready and I’ve realized Menoshine is a book first. And so it’s a hard hitting, hilarious memoir and guide for midlife women ready to tear up the script and write their own rules. And so [00:09:00] it’s like that teachable memoir. So I’m going to share my story, share the poems, and then also have this kind of guide as, it’s more about finding what is right for you versus someone telling you what the right thing is. And so I just feel really excited because I feel like all that I’ve learned in the past year, actually, now that I’m talking it through it’s all the mistakes I made around the marketing I’ve now got under my belt. And I’m like, okay, I’m planning for this book to come out in October around menopause awareness time.

[00:09:33] Jo: So I’ve got time and I can really start to plan how I’m going to do it and what’s going to be the outcome and where does this book then live and is there a community and all of that goes with it?

[00:09:41] Elizabeth Allen: I will say, as somebody in marketing, now is the time to be focusing on perimenopause and menopause, because this is a huge topic right now. And I think if you had done this book a couple of years ago, it would not have gotten the views and the, just [00:10:00] the juice that you would get now. Because I think a lot of women today are starting to understand, okay we’re of it especially comes down to the fact that people of the age who were always raised with the internet are starting to understand that like these things are happening.

[00:10:16] Elizabeth Allen: We aren’t being told what perimenopause is, what menopause is, what we can expect, how we can help ourselves along the way. And it is funny because I think this is like genius. It actually is like a perfect moment for you to release this. I almost wonder if that was why. You decided to like, like not you decided, but it was a perfect confluence of you deciding I’m going to focus on my son’s books for now.

[00:10:43] Elizabeth Allen: But now like you go on TikTok and there’s so much talk of perimenopause and menopause, because women are realizing I’ve been lied to my entire life about what it is or I’ve been told just fucking deal. [00:11:00] Just cope. And you’ll be fine. And in our little friend Slack with Rachel and Tanya, like we have a whole friend Slack.

[00:11:07] Elizabeth Allen: And this topic comes up all the time. Because we have friends who are ranging from like, late thirties to mid fifties. So we’re all in that process of going through like, am I in perimenopause? Am I in menopause? How long does my period have to be gone before I realize I’m in menopause? And then we have a friend who recently was like, I didn’t have a period for eight months. And then that bitch came back again,

[00:11:34] Jo: Yeah.

[00:11:35] Tanya Ballard Brown: Yes.

[00:11:36] Elizabeth Allen: So I think honestly, this is the perfect time. So while it wasn’t intentional marketing, I think it’s really smart that this is when you’re coming out about it, because I have never before seen so many discussions about perimenopause and menopause than I have within the last six months.

[00:11:54] Jo: Yeah. Thank you. And that’s what it does feel very aligned. And it also feels I’ve been [00:12:00] thinking through like, how am I different? How is this book different? And I think my perspective on it is I am not an expert by any means. I’m someone who’s going through it. And I also am a coach and I think I am inspiring in that way.

[00:12:12] Jo: I can help people turn towards, find what’s right for them. So , in telling my story and then also bringing some levity around it with these poems, I think that’s so important. And that builds into my Jotopia is a place where even on my darkest days, I can find the sun. That’s my whole thing.

[00:12:27] Jo: Cause I was very depressed. And so it’s bringing all of it together to tell my story to bring some levity and then guide that SHINE is an acronym, and so for each step within SHINE, there’s a way that you can find your own way and feel empowered is what I want people to walk away with. Not like, you need to do this, you need to go to this doctor, you need to take that. It’s so different for all of us, and I think the book will just help people.

[00:12:51] Jo: And that’s so

[00:12:52] Elizabeth Allen: bout menopause, is like, it just has to come down to What you know about what you’re going through, And I think so many of us feel like we’re [00:13:00] like in the dark. I don’t know what this is going to feel like. I don’t know what symptoms I’m going to experience.

[00:13:05] Elizabeth Allen: I’m going to experience a symptom and I’m going to go to my doctor and they’re going to say, No, that’s fine. You’re good. So I think. Most women I know appreciate some sort of levity to the topic because we’ve all been there and something like, like fun poetry will take us to the point where we’re like, Oh yeah, I’ve totally felt that way. I love knowing that I’m not alone because so much of menopause and perimenopause is being like, am I the only one who’s experiencing this? And I love that’s what you’re doing.

[00:13:37] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. And that, thank you. And that’s why even with my, so the other book that I have that isn’t a children’s book is I wrote a picture book for moms and it’s called Dear Mama Bear with the F’d Up Hair. And it’s cause I’m like, isn’t it time that you were told about time story, isn’t it time that you were tucked into bed?

[00:13:52] Elizabeth Allen: But that’s my whole thing with that is that it. And that’s what I use in the marketing for that is, isn’t, it’s time for you to feel seen, heard, and understood. And I think [00:14:00] that’s what people are craving. There is no one size fits all with motherhood. There is no one size fits all with menopause, but we can come together as a community and feel better to even just complain of this shit sucks,

[00:14:11] Jo: I did have people that was, I was starting to play with that on social media and I’m going to keep doing that as well as I talk more about the book, is- okay, give me a symptom and I’m going to write a poem about it. And so I had all that it was perfect and it worked really well. And so I have all these stupid poems about the various symptoms of menopause or perimenopause.

[00:14:30] Rachel Moore: Well, I like how this, and I’m always gonna bring it back to the trust part because you are, and I love how you talk about you and your son creating these books together. These are real life experiences coming from real people, super relatable. Could you have made a fiction book? Sure.

[00:14:46] Rachel Moore: It could have been like, Oh, this is departed. Change the names to protect the innocent. And maybe this is just some far flung thing, but instead we know this is about real people from real people, about real experiences. And look, even if I read your [00:15:00] Menoshine. And if I read that and I’m like, well, I didn’t have exactly those symptoms, but do you find that people still have a proclivity to say yes, but you’re talking about your experience. You’re putting yourself out there. Does that foster more trust? Do you think in like how people are accepting your story and then responding to

[00:15:17] Jo: Yeah. And I do hear that a lot. I think it’s also, I’m giving people a permission slip to tell their stories. And that’s in everything and even encouraging people to write is, here’s my story. I think. I actually have had people within my family like, Oh my God, you don’t need to share as much. T hey don’t like me sharing as much as I’m sharing, although I don’t share about them, but it’s uncomfortable for certain people, but I think when we’re vulnerable, and when we share our stories, people can relate, whether it is, like you said, it might not be the same thing.

[00:15:50] Jo: It might be completely different, but seeing somebody be brave enough to share their story in whatever format, like in the memoir, I’m not going to share everything, but there, [00:16:00] there are going to be some themes that I’ll talk about. And I think it does. It helps people feel that sense of community that it is coming.

[00:16:07] Jo: It isn’t fiction. It is, it’s the, it’s going back to, it’s okay to say I’m not okay. And that’s, I’m so passionate about mental health because I’ve gone through, pretty severe depression and anxiety, and so have some of my boys and I’m a huge advocate for it. We have to talk about this. So that’s why I just feel compelled to like, well, I don’t give a shit. I’m telling my story.

[00:16:30] Tanya Ballard Brown: I think the other thing it helps do to when you tell these stories and you’re honest about what’s happening with you is that it also helps other people have the confidence to push back when they go to their doctor, as Elizabeth said earlier, and the doctor’s ah, it’s fine. And you’re like, no, but I’m not fine.

[00:16:47] Tanya Ballard Brown: No, I’m not fine. And I’d like you to take a harder look at this. Accept that from that doctor and go to another doctor. Like someone needs to hear, I want to be heard and not dismissed because these [00:17:00] things are happening to me. I am feeling these things and I’m not going to be made to feel crazy. Like I’m making it up or it’s just some imagination in my brain. So I think that’s another element of hearing real stories from real people about this thing that happens to 50 percent of the population.

[00:17:17] Jo: Yeah.

[00:17:18] Elizabeth Allen: Well, and that’s part of what like I hate about like the whole menopause topic is so many women are made to feel like what they’re feeling isn’t real.

[00:17:27] Jo: Yep.

[00:17:27] Rachel Moore: Or they’re overreacting.

[00:17:28] Elizabeth Allen: And overreacting and you don’t know what you’re talking about. We know the history of thinking women have like hysteria and they’re on the fainting couches. So yeah, I have the vapors. So yeah, exactly. So the fact that you are giving them a voice that you are understanding that you’re going to walk into the situation and a good percentage, sadly of the healthcare industry is either going to just like dismiss what you’re saying or just won’t believe it.

[00:17:59] Elizabeth Allen: But you’re [00:18:00] not alone. Like you, your experiences are what we’re all experiencing. And even if they’re slightly different like this isn’t an unusual thing, and this is the thing, like when I recently learned the whole thing about for years and years, you would see feminine hygiene products like a pad and they would use the blue liquid on the commercials. And then only recently we realized that they literally were not using blood to test these products.

[00:18:28] Rachel Moore: I did not know that!

[00:18:29] Elizabeth Allen: Oh yeah, that, that just came up. It just, it literally just

[00:18:32] Tanya Ballard Brown: Oh, so they don’t even know if they

[00:18:34] Elizabeth Allen: They don’t even know they’re literally using their, they were always using blue liquid, like water saline to test feminine hygiene products, tampons, pads, and women just now were like, okay, so like you literally never tried to make sure you understood where I was.

[00:18:54] Elizabeth Allen: And that comes on, the backs of the whole thing about we know that like crash test dummies [00:19:00] are not made for in, in women’s, you know, what’s the word I’m looking for? Like form. So like where I put the seatbelt doesn’t matter because you made the crash test dummy to always be a man. But yeah, that came up recently where we just realized because I think we all always thought that they were just doing the blue liquid on these commercials. You don’t want to offend the men folk, they don’t want to know that there’s actually blood.

[00:19:27] Elizabeth Allen: But in reality, they literally were just like doing saline water. They were not testing any of that on blood until like recently. So the same thing comes from menopause where you’re like, there’s such little information about how menopause impacts women. We have failed women a hundred percent across the board about like how to deal with menopause, how it’s going to impact their bodies, their mental health, et cetera.

[00:19:58] Elizabeth Allen: And books like [00:20:00] Jo’s are so important because that’s what we need, because we’ve been so ignored for so long, and it was always going to take a woman, which is great, and Jo’s that woman. I love that, because, too often we rely on men in positions of power to tell our truth, and then they just fucking don’t.

[00:20:22] Rachel Moore: They’re not us, right? Even if they have best intentions.

[00:20:25] Tanya Ballard Brown: And they don’t care about menopause because all they, I won’t not every man, not all men I’ll

[00:20:32] Elizabeth Allen: We gonna say they only care about the dryness?

[00:20:35] Tanya Ballard Brown: Yep. what I was about to say. I often off because as often what they know.

[00:20:40] Elizabeth Allen: That’s all they care because that’s what’s impacts them.

[00:20:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: Well, yes, but I’ll be more generous and say that’s what they know. That’s what they’ve been told, all of that women stop wanting sex and are unable to have sex, which is not universal across all, like they don’t get the message that [00:21:00] all women are different. And while that may be true of some women, it’s not necessarily true of all women, but either way, there’s more to know about menopause than that particular small slice of it.

[00:21:11] Elizabeth Allen: Even just recently I was watching this TikTok and somebody was going through all of the symptoms of menopause and the number of symptoms I was like shocked by, myself as a fucking woman who’s about in that age group is amazing like I have not been taught that. I knew the big ones. Dryness Hot flashes that’s pretty

[00:21:34] Rachel Moore: fog.

[00:21:35] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Brain fog. But there were so many other symptoms that you’re like, Oh wow. I didn’t even know that’s what that could be. So I, if I’m experiencing those symptoms, I’m like, Oh, something’s fucking going on with me. Not Oh, I’m going through the first symptoms of menopause.

[00:21:52] Tanya Ballard Brown: Particularly if you’re still getting your period, because you may not

[00:21:55] Jo: that’s the thing. I’d never heard of perimenopause. I didn’t even know it was a thing.

[00:21:59] Rachel Moore: [00:22:00] Yeah.

[00:22:00] Tanya Ballard Brown: Like pre menopause, like what in the hell pre menopause? I got to have menopause and pre fucking menopause,

[00:22:05] Jo: Yeah. For 10 years, I was absolutely exhausted and I went to the doctor so many different, I could have my gallbladder removed because they, there were all these things like, do this. This will make a difference. Nothing shifted the needle at all. I was exhausted and it’s perimenopause. Like one of the things with perimenopause is fatigue is extreme fatigue. Some people it hits and it’s not knowing that- the procedures I had done to try and, because nobody was talking to me about perimenopause, I had no idea what that was.

[00:22:30] Rachel Moore: Well, and the big thing for me, cause I’ve been going through it like we said, we have a couple of people at least in our chat that are going through some of these and we’re different ages, but we’re going through it, and different to varying degrees. But I remember when , I think it was within the last year, the New York Times article that came out. It was a long ass article, but that was the first article I feel like I got an honest telling of saying, Hey, did you know that doctors have not really been trained very much at all in this thing that impacts literally 50 [00:23:00] percent of the population, but they’re not getting trained in it.

[00:23:02] Rachel Moore: So no shit that I’m going to go into female or male doctor nowadays, I’m more likely to run into a doctor who’s well, I don’t really know what to do. You want some medication? But don’t do hormone therapy because that can cause cancer, which wound up being totally false.

[00:23:15] Elizabeth Allen: And never mind that cancer can also cause, because whatever treatments you have to get can cause perimenopause or

[00:23:22] Jo: Yep. No menopause,

[00:23:24] Elizabeth Allen: you are not given that information either.

[00:23:26] Jo: No. The number, I have a couple of friends, as I was talking about this, two of them in particular have had that where it was like forced menopause came on because of the chemotherapy that they’d had. And they had no idea that was going to happen.

[00:23:37] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, my best friend right now is going through that, and she’s like, I don’t even know what to expect because she’s going through chemo, and then she might need to have a hysterectomy likely, and she’s like, I don’t know what early menopause is going to look like, and nobody’s telling her. It blows my mind.

[00:23:54] Jo: Yeah.

[00:23:55] Rachel Moore: Jo, I know we all are going to definitely get your book as soon as it comes out, because, my god. Yeah, [00:24:00] more women who are telling this truth about it aside from like people who don’t, even if they’re medically trained, it’s like, yes, but you’re not me experiencing it.

[00:24:07] Rachel Moore: I want to ask too I know you mentioned you’re helping a couple other authors launch and stuff like that. Curious and obviously, if you can’t divulge, that’s okay. But do you tend to gravitate toward authors who are telling a story about their own experience and that’s what they’re writing about.

[00:24:25] Jo: That’s a good question. Yeah. Yes and no. So the first book that’s going to come out is about leadership. And so that they’re working together, but it’s their story of leadership. So it’s it’s so similar. It’s what they’ve learned over the years. And they’re both, similar ages to me and it’s sharing what they’ve learned along the way.

[00:24:42] Jo: So there’s that. And then I’d say I’m bringing two types of authors. So there’s the people that see I write children’s books. And so they’re coming like, how do I write a children’s book? But then more I think the part that I really love is that part of helping that tends to be a woman. I’m completely open if it’s a man as well, but [00:25:00] helping that person who does have something really significant that’s happened in their life that’s changed them, tell that story. And I’m not, I’m not I’m not an editor, I’m not, I’m not in that role, but I can certainly coach through and I’ve read some of these, some of the manuscripts that I’ve seen and just my biggest advice always and will continue to be is be authentically you like I want to hear about you and your story.

[00:25:23] Jo: And I think so many people are actually scared to they’ll they’ll feel a lot of fluff and there’ll be lots of other diversions within the story, but it’s like when you can break it down and tell the authentic story, it should flow easily because it’s your story.

[00:25:34] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[00:25:35] Elizabeth Allen: But isn’t that true of all marketing, like one of the things we focus on constantly is authenticity and you can’t fake authenticity, even if you want to do it. We were talking about like the Reesa Teesa TikTok story that went viral. It has to be authentic. And so you can try to fake it, but for the most part, if it’s not [00:26:00] authentic, it’s not going to work.

[00:26:02] Elizabeth Allen: So the same is so true, Jo, of your stories and what you’re promoting, is it has to be authentic for it to actually move anywhere, because this is the Just Trust Me podcast. And we know that people are a lot smarter than you think they are when it comes to marketing. They know when they’re being marketed to. And so you really need to have that authenticity for you to feel like, okay, I’m being marketed to, but the story behind it and the work behind it is genuine and sincere.

[00:26:32] Rachel Moore: Mm-Hmm.

[00:26:33] Jo: That’s a really good point. And honestly, I think that’s something I’ve learned in my four years when I first started out. I was more concerned with how do I get my content out? Like, how do I get my content out? And so I wasn’t thinking about the person receiving the content. And that’s been my biggest aha moment is once I start to talk to that person and help them think about what worries do they have? What do they need and what need am I fulfilling? That’s how it’s starting to work for me. And I, I will [00:27:00] say, I appreciate at the beginning when you said, Jo’s a, book marketing guru, I am actually not . That’s my thing this year.

[00:27:06] Jo: I’ve done very well. I’ve been very successful in publishing my books and I’ve sold a good amount, but I am by no means close to any, there are lots of other self published authors that I see selling a lot more. And so that’s my goal this year is , how do I, how can I be authentic, be me and start seeing that tick up and start these books really getting some eyes on them.

[00:27:27] Jo: But I also don’t think I’m not worried about it. Like the goal is not the book sales. The goal is touching hearts. And so that’s where I’m coming from is like, how many hearts can I touch?

[00:27:37] Elizabeth Allen: Getting books to

[00:27:38] Jo: my

[00:27:38] Elizabeth Allen: right people. And yeah I agree with that. And I think that’s, if you want to be successful, that’s how you have to come at it is I want to get this book to the people who need to read it. And if I’m trying to do anything else, it’s just, it’s going to fail. Everytime

[00:27:54] Jo: Yeah.

[00:27:55] Elizabeth Allen: And that’s why I think you’ve had the success you’ve had. And that’s why I think you, you’ll have the [00:28:00] success you want in the future is because you’re really focused on the readers themselves, as opposed to like me getting these numbers, these engagement numbers, these viewer numbers, it’s not as important as who’s going to be reading these books.

[00:28:14] Jo: And what’s it going to do for them? Yeah. Thank you.

[00:28:17] Rachel Moore: Yeah. Well, I know we’re close to wrapping up our time with you and here on the podcast, but Jo, the most important question we have for you probably is because we do want you to get those numbers and we want you to, your book to go far and wide. How can our listeners find and follow you online? Where should they follow you? What should they know? Tell us all the places to to go to you.

[00:28:37] Jo: All the things, thank you. So I’m most active on Instagram. So I am at jo_of_jotopia. So, that’s where I’m on Instagram. My website is And so if anyone’s interested in, writing, if anyone has questions around self publishing their own book, I am more than happy to share information. I’ll be opening up another [00:29:00] cohort in the end of the year the end of the summer. But yeah. @jo_of_jotopia on Instagram is probably the best place to catch

[00:29:06] Rachel Moore: We all need to go be part of Jotopia. It’s very true. Let’s do a little round robin too for our hosts. Tanya, where can we find and follow you online?

[00:29:15] Tanya Ballard Brown: I am always at T double B T D O U B L E B on all of the things, but like Jo, I probably spend the most time on Instagram. So if you want to ping me, that’s the place to be.

[00:29:28] Rachel Moore: Excellent. And Elizabeth, how about you?

[00:29:30] Elizabeth Allen: All right, so my latest account on TikTok just got banned, but

[00:29:33] Tanya Ballard Brown: Is this like 11? Is this account 11?

[00:29:36] Elizabeth Allen: I’m on account, I’m on account 13.

[00:29:39] Tanya Ballard Brown: 13. Okay. I knew we were in double ditches. Okay.

[00:29:42] Elizabeth Allen: You know what? It’s always against like bad men and they don’t like what I say. And then I get it, I get banned. I’m not going to give you that one because who knows, but I’m LinkedIn @elizabethallen1001. That’s my main place right now, because I’m looking for a [00:30:00] job here. Hit a girl up!

[00:30:02] Rachel Moore: She is. She’s looking for a job. Tanya’s looking for Jeffrey Wright? Jo’s looking for people to be interested in her books.

[00:30:09] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jeffrey, you’re from DC. I’m in DC. What’s up, dude? Let’s go out and have a drink. The rest will happen. All we need to do is set eyes on each other. The rest, the magic will happen.

[00:30:20] Elizabeth Allen: You guys would be such a beautiful couple. And that’s what Wright needs to know.

[00:30:26] Rachel Moore: If we ever went on tour, this podcast or basically the tour would be out in front of Jeffrey’s house. And just be like, we’re gonna have a tour right here.

[00:30:33] Elizabeth Allen: I will say it was easier than when she was obsessed with Idris Elba. That one was going to be a lot harder.

[00:30:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: Yeah.

[00:30:39] Rachel Moore: Yeah, at least he’s got proximity, so it’s gonna be it’s more doable.

[00:30:42] Tanya Ballard Brown: And as far as I know, Well, part of what took the shine off Idris is he got married to that gal, and but I think Jeffrey is actually free and available. I am free and available,

[00:30:57] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jeffrey, so hey,

[00:30:58] Rachel Moore: Look at those commonalities [00:31:00] right there. That’s right. Jeffrey, you’ve been summoned again, someone…

[00:31:05] Elizabeth Allen: What is this, the fifth time on this podcast? Jeffrey wright, learn your your place.

[00:31:09] Rachel Moore: Six degrees from Jeffrey Wright, somebody somewhere should know how to make things happen

[00:31:13] Elizabeth Allen: Okay, so why aren’t we at-ing Jeffrey Wright in every single podcast episode? We really should be, just for the hell of it.

[00:31:19] Rachel Moore: We should just summoning him like it’s Beetlejuice or, say his name three times. Say it. What were you gonna say?

[00:31:27] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jeffrey Wright.

[00:31:29] Elizabeth Allen: he’s here.

[00:31:30] Rachel Moore: Well, Beetlejuice is out. Beetlejuice 2. No, he’s not here. He will be though. And then I’m Rachel Moore. I’m Rachel Has the Mic everywhere. And I do have a mic. It’s lovely. It’s an ATR 2100. I believe firmly in it. It’s never done me wrong. That’s right. I’m getting some cheers on there too. Blue Yeti’s fine. Blue Yeti’s just fine. But no, ATR all the way. But thank you again, everybody. Thank you for joining the podcast and Jo, thank you for your time. And yeah, I might send you a symptom just cause I want a naughty poem.

[00:31:57] Jo: Oh do it, I’d love that. Yeah, please [00:32:00] do.

[00:32:01] Rachel Moore: I am all about, do you do haikus? What format poems do you do?

[00:32:04] Jo: I don’t do haikus, they’re just short they’re just short rhyming poems. So

[00:32:07] Rachel Moore: Like little couplets kind of thing.

[00:32:09] Jo: Yeah

[00:32:09] Elizabeth Allen: So if I send you that, I’m like, I’m not sure if it’s hot flashes or if we changed the HVAC system in my house and it just might be warmer in my bedroom. Can you do one about that?

[00:32:21] Jo: I have one on, I’ll send you, I have one on hot flashes. Yeah.

[00:32:24] Elizabeth Allen: Hey Jo, come to my house and be like, is this a hot flash or

[00:32:28] Jo: is my HVAC system working too well?

[00:32:33] Rachel Moore: These are things that are important to know. How are we, how do we know the difference?

[00:32:37] Elizabeth Allen: What a time to be a woman, all this wonderful stuff

[00:32:41] Tanya Ballard Brown: Just trust me, people.[00:32:44] Rachel Moore: Just trust me. All right. Thank you everyone !