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Opting Out of Canva Cringe

the Just Trust Me marketing podcast. The words "Just Trust Me" are sliding down a bar and falling off onto hands raised up to catch them.

Show Notes

We’re back to ring in a new season of Just Trust Me! As the ladies get back into the swing, we discuss how brands are handling sensitive subject matter as people begin to demand higher EQs from companies looking for their money. Spurred on by Tanya’s favorite question, “Good Marketing, Question Mark”, we talk about whether or not Canva created an outbreak of second-hand embarrassment or a fun little viral moment. And as always, we chat about how we recently got got by the geniuses of social media. It’s been too long, but we’re thrilled to be back, gossiping about The Wild World of Marketing.

Transcript

JTM S2 E1 Full

[00:00:00] Cold Open

[00:00:00] Tanya Ballard Brown: Hello. Hello. It

[00:00:02] Rachel Moore: It’s been a minute.

[00:00:03] ​

[00:00:14] Intro + Opting Out

[00:00:14] Rachel Moore: Welcome to Just Trust Me, the marketing podcast that calls out the winning and wily ways of today’s marketing. I’m your host, Rachel Moore. As always, I’m in cahoots with my two, I love using the word cahoots. I think we should all infuse it into our vernacular with my two fellow marketers and co hosts, uh, Elizabeth Allen, say hi,

[00:00:32] Elizabeth Allen: Hello, hell. I’ve missed you all.

[00:00:35] Rachel Moore: We’ve missed you.

[00:00:36] And Tanya Ballard Brown.

[00:00:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: Hello. I like the way that you like cahoots.

[00:00:42] Rachel Moore: So thank you. Welcome back. We’re calling this season two, episode one of Just Trust Me, by the way, I’m going to throw this in there. Do you know that most podcasts only put out three episodes and then they stop.

[00:00:52] So we’re already winning. Cause we’ve had eight episodes out. Woo hoo.

[00:00:57] Elizabeth Allen: Totally intentional, okay?

[00:00:59] Rachel Moore: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. It was all, we, we had things to do.

[00:01:02] Elizabeth Allen: It was planned this way.

[00:01:04] Rachel Moore: It’s totally planned. Um, well today we’re going to talk about a few marketing-y things. Uh, we’re going to talk about Mother’s Day and Father’s Day and the brands who read the room regarding their promotions of such. We’re going to ask the question, which Tanya, I like that you’ve been asking this in our Slack recently: good marketing question mark. So we’re going to ask that question about the folks rapping on the main stage of Canva Create. Uh, leave that alone for a second. And then we’re going to go to We Got Got – how at least one of us fell for good old wily marketing. We are all savvy marketers, but you know what?

[00:01:40] We can get got and we can, and that happens.

[00:01:43] But first, real quick, ladies. In our break, anyone do anything interesting you want to call out? From when we were kind of in our mid season break?

[00:01:51] Tanya Ballard Brown: I did not see Jesus’s tooth.

[00:01:53] Elizabeth Allen: Expand?

[00:01:54] Rachel Moore: Yes, please.

[00:01:56] Tanya Ballard Brown: Okay. So I went to Vienna, Austria to meet my friend Esther there. Okay. And one of the things that she wanted to do. No, let me go back. No, she had been there before. And she said the last time she was there, that she saw Jesus’s tooth in this museum. And I was like, you did not see Jesus’s tooth.

[00:02:18] Rachel Moore: Why was it in Austria?

[00:02:20] Tanya Ballard Brown: And I said, no, there, there is no Jesus’s tooth. So we went to this museum. We walked around this whole museum to see Jesus’s tooth. It was not Jesus’s tooth, okay?

[00:02:36] It was John the Baptist’s tooth. I think it was just a tooth. I think it

[00:02:44] Rachel Moore: that they said belonged to John the Baptist.

[00:02:46] Tanya Ballard Brown: tooth. However, John the Baptist is Jesus adjacent.

[00:02:54] Elizabeth Allen: I love she, like, she gave it like a promotion in her brain. Not just John the Baptist, it was Jesus’s tooth. It sounds like something that would happen in my brain.

[00:03:03] Tanya Ballard Brown: Like when we got there, she was like, Oh, I remembered it wrong. And I was like, I know you did. Cause there is no Jesus’s tooth.

[00:03:09] Elizabeth Allen: You feel like that’s the height of like promotion where you’re like Jesus, of all people, Jesus. You’re like, oh yeah, it must have been Jesus. It was Jesus. And literally, and that’s the part that cracks me up is like nobody talks about this on a regular basis. I feel like this would be a big point of conversation.

[00:03:27] Tanya Ballard Brown: Jesus’s tooth? In this museum? How will we get in this museum? She stood on business. Okay. And then when we was like John the Baptist, she was like, Oh, I remembered it wrong.

[00:03:37] Elizabeth Allen: Listen, in reality, it was the tooth I had pulled in like 2003. I sold it off to a museum. You’re welcome.

[00:03:44] Rachel Moore: And I swear you said tooth, and I’m like, did I mishear her? Does she mean Jesus’s tomb?

[00:03:49] Cool. Cool. Okay. So, um, so you didn’t go see Jesus’s. So that’s, you know, that’s something,

[00:03:54] Elizabeth Allen: But you did go to Vienna, so that’s the exciting part.

[00:03:58] Rachel Moore: That’s lovely.

[00:03:59] Tanya Ballard Brown: I did. I did.

[00:03:59] Rachel Moore: Elizabeth. How about you? Uh, what was up with you?

[00:04:02] Elizabeth Allen: I am still hustling and grinding on the unemployment front. So that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing. I am very much looking forward to- in a couple of weeks, my family is going to, we’re going to Ireland for one of my best friend’s weddings. Uh, she actually lives and grew up and was raised in Ireland.

[00:04:21] She came over here for two years when we were in second grade We became buddies And so when I say like when I tell people I’m going to my best friend’s wedding in Ireland, they just assume it’s somebody from the US who’s getting married in Ireland. No, like she lives in Ireland and we just happened to stay really close.

[00:04:36] She was a bridesmaid in my wedding. Um, so we’ll be heading over to Ireland. She gets to meet my daughter for the first time, which she’s very excited about. And then we’re going to do a little, like mini, Beatles pilgrimage. I am a huge Beatles fan. So we’re going to hit up Liverpool. We’re going to hit up London do, you know, of course you have to be the assholes walking across Abbey Road and like, you know, you have to do it.

[00:04:57] You just have to. So, um, while a lot hasn’t happened in my life and, uh, hopefully soon I am starting a new job, but at least I have something to look forward to. And honestly, I will say I was really freaked out when I first got laid off because I had three trips planned for this year. And I was like, I mean, you two heard me like freak out about it on our Slack constantly, because I was like, what am I going to do if I’m hired?

[00:05:23] And I have to be like, I’m all, I have a week off in, uh, May in June. It’s, it’s not going to look good. So honestly, part of being laid off and not having gotten something yet, it worked out well because I’m like, okay, phew, that’s done. Now I can start whenever you want me to start.

[00:05:39] Rachel Moore: And I love that you’re going, I mean, obviously, you know, you’ve got these things, these commitments you’re going to, but I mean, just, just go, just, you know, enjoy yourself. Live your life.

[00:05:47] Elizabeth Allen: Exactly. So I am looking forward to that. That’ll be very fun. Um, and yeah, so I’m going to geek out about the Beatles and make a real nuisance of myself. It’ll be fun.

[00:05:58] Rachel Moore: I love it, as you should. You should leave your mark, leave your mark over there. They will speak of you in hushed and reverent tones. Yeah and then my thing, my big stuff, uh, my oldest, my son graduated high school. And I felt like I planned a wedding with that weekend of festivities.

[00:06:13] I know. And y’all, um, I’ll just say this too, as, as a mom who has encountered some shall we say, special teachers of his along the way. I really just want to send his graduation picture with me flipping the bird at a couple of his teachers be like, well, made it in spite of you. Mm.

[00:06:29] Tanya Ballard Brown: I don’t know. I’m in denial

[00:06:30] Elizabeth Allen: I know. How are these kids this old? I don’t understand

[00:06:34] Rachel Moore: They were wee babbies.

[00:06:36] Elizabeth Allen: They were wee babbies and I don’t understand it. I don’t like that it makes me feel old. And so, like, really, your son hurt me when he graduated. And I feel like he should apologize for that.

[00:06:47] Tanya Ballard Brown: I felt it more deeply than any of you. Okay.

[00:06:49] Elizabeth Allen: Mm

[00:06:51] Tanya Ballard Brown: It was all about me.

[00:06:53] Rachel Moore: It’s weird, y’all. It is. I mean, it’s been very nostalgic around these parts because I’m just like, man, because I, I remember vividly and I’m sure parents can agree and, you know, anyone who really just has any hopes for anything where you’re just like, you have those doubts, like, oh God, oh God, oh God.

[00:07:05] And also just the fact that we got him through high school without going through a shooting. So that’s nice. So just really relieved one more, one more is left to go. But, um, so yeah, that was, that was what I was busy with, but let us dig into, transitioning segueing beautifully into let’s talk about Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. So, we all work in some capacity in marketing and usually, you know, there’s always those, those dates on the calendar that, you know, you capitalize upon. And certainly we’re talking like commercial businesses absolutely do this, right. Where there’s a sale, um, their marketing, you know, there’s promotions, discounts, all this stuff.

[00:07:43] But even if they’re not discounting stuff, they’re fully capitalizing on a very, um, sales driven, money driven holidays. And some of these are fine, you know, it’s like, Oh, they’re just kind of run of the mill. But others, um, can tend to tread a little bit into the, are we hurting people with this?

[00:08:00] So Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. And I’m going to open it up with saying, I will admit, I used to be very ignorant about how Mother’s Day and Father’s Day promotions can come across to people. I’ll pause there though, because didn’t one of y’all get like a message recently from a brand that was basically saying, “Hey, you can opt out ?”

[00:08:21] Tanya Ballard Brown: I get them from Postable all the time. They did it for Mother’s Day and then they do it for Father’s Day, but I’ve seen them other places too. I think I actually maybe shared from another post. I don’t remember. Um, but I used to be bothered by the Mother’s Day one, not because I’m not a mom, but because my mom was gone, and it was like you would just be bombarded with all of these things.

[00:08:42] Like, do you want to get a card for your mom or flowers for your mom and this for your mom and all that? Yeah. I would love to do any and all of that, but my mother is dead and I don’t like to be reminded of that. You know, I’m some years out now, so I’m less sensitive about it.

[00:08:57] Um, and I realized it’s not necessarily all about me and my feelings because there are other people who you know, raising children and loving kids and, and being bonus moms and grand moms and auntie moms and all those kinds of moms or whatever. And, and that kind of thing.

[00:09:16] But it, you know, in the first couple of years after my mom passed away, it was really like, can I stop getting all of these things from places? Cause I say, you know, cards and flowers, but it also would be like, Hey, we’re having a shoe sale, or, Hey, come buy some groceries . Some would say, well, just unsubscribe or whatever. But on a normal day, I might actually want that shoe at sale.

[00:09:41] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah.

[00:09:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: Or I might want to know that I can get some cheaper groceries. You know, I just don’t necessarily want to be bombarded with a lot of messaging around Mother’s Day. And that’s how I felt in that moment, but I think it’s, I think it’s kind of savvy.

[00:09:55] They gave you the choice. You can opt out for that particular marketing push. And I liked how they said we’re not going to stop sending you things. We’re just going to stop sending you things around Mother’s Day or Father’s Day. So you’re just opting out of this content and not the rest of our sales.

[00:10:11] And I was like, see, Postable. I mean, I do spend a lot of money on there just because I’m lazy and it’s just way easier to kind of automate stuff on there. And I do like to send cards and stuff, but it’s worked for me. This might be a I Got Got too for me.

[00:10:25] Elizabeth Allen: No, I mean, I agree with that. And I think that’s part of the issue we have overall in marketing is trying to, and we’ve talked about it on this podcast before, like crowbarring every freaking holiday into a marketing campaign, whether or not it makes sense. Right? Um, we see it all the time and it’s interesting and there are situations where it makes sense.

[00:10:48] It’s like you said, like flowers, cards, whatever. And it is really nice to have the option to opt out. My father passed away unexpectedly like three years ago. Um, so yeah, I don’t necessarily want to be reminded of that. I do also have a husband who is a father, like, so that’s part of it too. But it is hard to have it thrown in your face all of the time if you’re grieving or another situation is if you just don’t have a great relationship with your parents.

[00:11:14] A lot of people are like no contact with their parents. That’s really tough too. And so I love the companies that are giving an opt out option. But also I do think a lot of companies need to really think about whether or not they need to be pushing these particular holidays so hard. Like you can do a general like Happy Mother’s Day to those who celebrate, you know, something like that, like Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever.

[00:11:41] It’s when they’re trying to push it for a sale that it feels a little disingenuous and it does feel kind of like sometimes a slap in the face of the people who are like, I literally lost my mother three days ago. And this is really hard. And I wasn’t expecting to hear this from like, um, you know, I don’t know Audible.Com, you know, like I was expecting to be like send candy or something like that. So I honestly think it’s a great thing and I also started noticing it a few years ago, the chance to opt out of those messages. And I thought it was really interesting and very smart. And I think it shows a kind of emotional intelligence with the brand that not all brands are capable of. And I know personally if I see that I’m like wow, somebody seems to be in the background really thinking about these things and I appreciate that

[00:12:36] Tanya Ballard Brown: Postable is a good fit because it’s about like sending cards to remind people that you love them and you’re thinking of them and that kind of thing. And I wanted to just circle back and say, and one group that sometimes I think gets forgotten are people who wanted kids and can’t have them.

[00:12:50] Elizabeth Allen: Yes. Amen.

[00:12:52] Tanya Ballard Brown: They can be super, super upsetting, even as, you know, someone who wanted kids and doesn’t have them, um, I can get that it’s not all about me and what’s happening in my life or whatever. But you can’t, you can’t opt out of everything, and so you, you try to manage your feelings and emotions and sometimes just being bombarded with these messages can be hurtful and painful, even if you’re prepared for the bombardment, right?

[00:13:25] And so that to me gives even more of a sort of check mark to companies who have said, Hey, let’s offer this option to people. So that they can check out not all the time, but they can check out on this particular content if that’s what they would like to do.

[00:13:41] Elizabeth Allen: And that’s exactly it. Like, there’s got to be some sort of safe space for people who are dealing with those feelings, whether it be a parent who has passed, whether it be a childless person who wanted that for their future. And it’s hard enough when you’re getting that on, you know, podcast ads, if you’re getting it on television ads, you’re getting it constantly on ads, just like on the internet in general.

[00:14:07] And then you go into your email and you’re getting that as well. It’s just like, where can I escape to at where I do not have to hear about this? And I appreciate what you’re saying, Tanya, like I’m responsible for my own emotions, but like, we also don’t know like how soon somebody has dealt with that particular trauma. And it may be literally three days ago that say horribly, like you had a miscarriage .

[00:14:33] Tanya Ballard Brown: Or still birth. Lost a child. Or you just found out that the 10 day wait was not successful.

[00:14:40] Elizabeth Allen: There has to be some sort of safe space for you. And especially because now, not only is it email, but it’s the SMS text, like, it’s like, I’m getting them literally just like shoved into my face at all times. And we never know. And even if somebody is years in the grieving process, they still might not be at that place.

[00:15:00] And whether the grieving process is again, a parent who has passed or, you know, uh, an infertility issue. I love the idea that companies are thinking about that and it makes me think more highly of them and the team that they have behind them.

[00:15:16] Rachel Moore: Well, and the, the tech is there obviously, and it’s been there and it really, it boils down to them taking the time to go into their marketing tech stack and their ops and say, let’s create lists. Let’s create, we create tags for the different kinds of emails promotions you have. Obviously you’re going to create them.

[00:15:34] Obviously you’re going to send them out, but then you’re, all you’re doing is you’re giving the choice over to the customer to say, you can choose if you want to see this or not. You can come back and start these up again if you want. It’s just a simple thing and like you said, if you’re nuanced about it and say, we’re just giving you a choice and I’d love to see data on how many people are opting to do that.

[00:15:55] This reminds me of like, um, I keep seeing posts about it. Chewy, that company that does food for animals and , you know, it’s always the ultimate thing where you lose your pet. Because they age or get old and whatever, and they go that extra. It’s not like they just stop. Oh, well, we don’t need to feed your pet anymore, but they send you a thing like here’s for the pet , your family member that you no longer have. And it’s like, they’re with you in that grieving. And I just see them get called out so much in a positive way where it’s like, you cared about my pet, not just that I’m paying you money to get food from you, but they just do that extra.

[00:16:29] And that feels like what these companies are doing. They’re doing that little bit of extra that can be super meaningful for wherever that person is on the other side of that marketing piece.

[00:16:36] Tanya Ballard Brown: I mean, it’s certainly savvy. I, I don’t know that they care about my pet, but

[00:16:41] Elizabeth Allen: How could anybody not care about Butterbean?

[00:16:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: Everybody cares about Butterbean.

[00:16:44] Elizabeth Allen: Everybody cares about Butterbean. She’s a diva.

[00:16:46] Tanya Ballard Brown: But they certainly care about my business. About retaining my business. And that’s a good way because if God forbid my baby died. God forbid something happens to her, but you do this. And then I remember that. Right. And so the next time I see a friend, I mention it to a friend who they have a pet and I might be like, Oh, you know, Chewy did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That might make them go, Oh, really? And start spending money with Chewy. Right.

[00:17:16] Rachel Moore: Yeah.

[00:17:17] Tanya Ballard Brown: If I get another pet, I might go to Chewy because they treated me so well. It’s those little kinds of things, goodwill. It’s the goodwill that they’re building.

[00:17:28] Elizabeth Allen: And it’s true for like local independent businesses too. I think we, a lot of times we’re talking about really big brands, but that’s true for local independent businesses too. Because my cat Penny Lane had passed away a handful of years ago and our vet sent us a beautiful bouquet of flowers, and I think we used them twice.

[00:17:48] I think we got her fixed, and then she passed away. It wasn’t like, we didn’t have a really strong relationship where we were constantly, I mean, she was a cat. So cats are a little different. They have a little less maintenance issues to go to the vet than dogs. But yeah, they still sent this beautiful bouquet the day after she passed away.

[00:18:06] And I will always remember that. And so when people on my local Facebook board are like, I need a new vet. And I was like, absolutely this place. I think that like my cat wasn’t just like, you know, Oh, another dead cat, whatever. It’s fine. I mean, I’m not stupid.

[00:18:21] I know that they weren’t sitting there and being like, Oh, Penny Lane, you know. But they appreciated that there’s a lot of emotions attached to us. And if we want to continue their business, because yeah, I had another cat and I will likely always have a cat at some point. I’m going to use their services.

[00:18:42] It’s really smart and I don’t want to think it’s cynical or something. I do believe that there are good intentions with that. Because the cards you receive from Chewy are handwritten. Like somebody’s writing those cards when your pet passes away.

[00:18:57] Tanya Ballard Brown: You know, when Alex died, I was fit to be tied in here. I was like, Oh my God, my dog is gone.

[00:19:04] Rachel Moore: I mean, that’s raw emotion, but I mean, Elizabeth, that’s what you’re saying too. It’s like, and this all comes back to these companies are demonstrating, even if it’s a business decision, like you said. Not to be cynical, but somebody at that company said, you know what? You know how marketing is all about the feels and vibes and let’s make sure we’re paying attention to that.

[00:19:23] That matters to the customer. Let’s make it matter to us. And so they, they are making these choices to say, let’s let them choose their adventure with our company. And, if we can be trusted with their feelings, we can be trusted with their moneys. And then we’re going to give them their business.

[00:19:41] And so money, money, money, ROI. And it’s, it’s smart decisions. It’s smart marketing. Mm hmm.

[00:19:47] Elizabeth Allen: And in my head the higher ups obviously are making these decisions based on financial reasons. I totally get that. But I do think there are people lower down in the company, like, I do think that somebody’s writing that card and there’s something in their head that’s like, Oh, that’s sad. Because most people in their lives have had a pet and most people in their lives have had a pet that who’s passed away. So I like to believe that there is some sort of love coming from that.

[00:20:14] And maybe that makes me silly and simple and stupid, but I like to believe that there’s somebody in that process who is like, you know, so and so lost Snickers, and Snickers has passed away, and that person’s sad, and I want to make their day a little brighter. I think that’s nice. Again, like I said, I don’t think the CEO was thinking about that. The CEO was like, money? Which, I mean, I can’t blame him, that’s what his job is, you know .

[00:20:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: It’s basically like, I’ll pay somebody to do that. If you’re telling me that that will help us retain our customers.

[00:20:44] Elizabeth Allen: Exactly. Exactly. Hire one of us saps to write those cards. We’ll do it.

[00:20:49] Tanya Ballard Brown: I will write those cards. I mean, I’ll write those cards for money.

[00:20:52] Elizabeth Allen: You’ll do anything for money, Tanya. We know who you are.

[00:20:55] Tanya Ballard Brown: But I would do that job. I mean, it would be sad, but also like kind of feeling goodish.

[00:20:59] Elizabeth Allen: There’s something fulfilling about that. Like emotionally fulfilling about like that’s what I do for a living is I try to make people who have lost their pets feel a little better about it. Like, I think that’s a great job. And we know those people aren’t making a lot of money, but I would hope they are. We know they’re not, but I’d be like $200,000 a year. That’s what you deserve.

[00:21:17] Rachel Moore: That’s right. Exactly. All right. Well, we’re, we’re wrapping up on that particular topic. We’re going to, um, we’re going to take a quick break and we’ll be right back.

[00:21:24] ​

[00:21:24] Canva Cringe

[00:21:57] Rachel Moore: And we’re back. So now we’re going to talk about, and Tanya, again, as I mentioned, you have raised this and I like this. So of course we’re infusing it into the podcast. Good marketing question mark. Is this good marketing? And I love that you’ve been coming through and sometimes you are on a roll. Like, you were like, bam, bam, bam. And I’m

[00:22:14] Tanya Ballard Brown: If I’m on Insta, I’m getting, I think my algorithm has changed. I’m getting hit with a lot of marketing, marketing

[00:22:23] Rachel Moore: It’s because they’re listening.

[00:22:25] Tanya Ballard Brown: Right?

[00:22:26] Elizabeth Allen: They’re all hearing us.

[00:22:26] Rachel Moore: Mmmhhhmm.

[00:22:28] Tanya Ballard Brown: So I think that that’s part of it too.

[00:22:30] Rachel Moore: Well, the the one you brought up, and this is still being spoken of around the internet because it went viral. So Canva Create just happened. So Canva Create is their big let’s talk all the things that are coming out, all the new releases. And of course, I think every marketer, if you don’t know what Canva is, oh my Lord, um, it is literally the tool that lets you look and talk and feel and walk and earn money like a graphic designer.

[00:22:53] And it’s really great. I’ve actually stopped using Adobe Creative Cloud because I just used Canva. And not to say that you don’t need tools like that, but.

[00:23:01] Elizabeth Allen: So I will say that rap for corporate companies is really hard to pull off in general. Like, we’re always going to be laughing at you immediately, right?

[00:23:09] Tanya Ballard Brown: Right. I mean, if you can’t go ahead, I mean, it, listen, listen, if you’re going to try to do rap for your corporate event, you just need to get a rapper.

[00:23:18] Elizabeth Allen: Get a rapper. Exactly.

[00:23:21] Tanya Ballard Brown: But go ahead and call Snoop, you know, spend the money and get. Um, Snoop or, you know, Kendrick Lamar or Drake or whoever

[00:23:30] Elizabeth Allen: Also nobody wants to hear you rapping about the company. They just want to hear you rapping like, Snoop, we just want to hear your regular songs. We do not want to hear you rapping about Canva. And they’re like, integrated applications.

[00:23:42] Tanya Ballard Brown: Granted, agree to it. we’re not the audience for that. So there you go. Cause I was like, they were talking about stuff that I just

[00:23:48] Rachel Moore: I mean, kind of

[00:23:50] Tanya Ballard Brown: to be honest, care about, I don’t care about enterprise solutions and all like, I mean, when I say we, I mean, let me just say me, me, I’m not for that.

[00:24:03] Rachel Moore: oh God.

[00:24:04] Elizabeth Allen: It, it seems try hard. Like, it, it gives try hard. Like, we’re like, you know what the kids like today? They like rap. You know, they like Hamilton

[00:24:16] Tanya Ballard Brown: Which goes back to who is the audience for

[00:24:19] Rachel Moore: this?

[00:24:20] Hmm.

[00:24:20] Elizabeth Allen: Not,

[00:24:20] Tanya Ballard Brown: If your audience is your staff, is your staff. But who do you think your workforce is if that’s your audience and maybe this, you know, they did clap and cheer at the end. So maybe this did fit them, but then the other question I have is.

[00:24:38] Because this is what I would be asking is how much money did y’all spend on this? Because. These people rehearse. They got a whole song, somebody wrote this. They got a whole routine they’re doing back there. So like, did y’all use work hours to do this? And if the people did not use work hours to do it, did they get paid for the overtime or whatever the time that they spent pulling this together?

[00:24:56] Do these people even work here? Are these some folks that y’all pull in from outside and paid to do like basically

[00:25:02] Elizabeth Allen: I think that only that one woman who came up works for the company.

[00:25:04] Tanya Ballard Brown: In this economy? No.

[00:25:06] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah, hell no,

[00:25:08] Rachel Moore: So I hadn’t seen it, but without having seen it, my, my, I was reading a bunch of the hoopla about it. Cringe, you know, seeing it, I was cringe and I’m like, yeah, but you’re talking about it. You, the word Canva is in people’s mouths. Everywhere, positive, negative, be that as it may. We all know you’re not in the business of rapping.

[00:25:28] You’re in the business of creating a tool that so many fucking people use. Me included. And I pay premium because I like it. But I just that’s where I’m like, I wonder. And I just feel like I’m using Guy Kawasaki. Like, I think he’s like the founder of Canva or whatever. But I just feel like there’s savvy enough people in there.

[00:25:46] But they’re like, yes, this is going to really make some people cringe. We’re going to do it anyway, because, you know, and, and they just decided to take that gamble. And meanwhile, people are still talking about Canva.

[00:26:00] Elizabeth Allen: That’s the interesting thing about marketing. You never know if it was like satire or if it was genuine. Like it’s hard. And it actually, that is the good thing where you can be like, Oh no, we meant for y’all to laugh at it. When in reality they walked into the boardroom and they’re like, we’ve got it.

[00:26:16] This is going to kill everybody. I don’t know.

[00:26:21] Tanya Ballard Brown: Like a bad episode of some bad show. Like something from The Office, you know.

[00:26:27] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. Like Michael Scott would absolutely do this rap.

[00:26:30] Rachel Moore: Or like when Ross and, uh, and Monica are dancing together in that one episode of Friends and you’re like, Oh my God, you’re so lame!

[00:26:38] Tanya Ballard Brown: More like on Girlfriends when, when Joan is always coming up with some song and the whole acting a costume with her and William on Girlfriends. But you know what? You make a good point because you’re right. I did call Juan in to look at this foolishness and he had no idea about Canva. Now he still may not have any idea about Canva, but I’m making him aware of this business now because of this video.

[00:27:04] Even if I’m like, I don’t want to say mocking the video, cause I’m not necessarily mocking the video, but I’m criticizing the video. That’s a better word. Cause I, you know, I’m not mocking it, but I do find it cringy. That is a very good word. I’m going to steal from the, from the and say cringy

[00:27:20] And the hard thing is

[00:27:21] Elizabeth Allen: that, like, with Canva, because it’s, like, a graphic designer tool, I don’t know, and maybe, like, I feel like, maybe it’s because of my age, I feel like younger people would use that, but maybe I’m absolutely wrong, that it’s that it’s cringy to use Canva, because if you’re, like, a true graphic designer, you’re not relying on something like Canva. I mean, I think it’s a great tool. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my use of Canva.

[00:27:46] Tanya Ballard Brown: I use it too.

[00:27:47] Elizabeth Allen: That’s really tough. Like who was this targeted to, I’m not quite sure. And also the fact that when we talk about it, like most Gen X and millennials also grew up on rap. Um, you know, and is that more for Gen X Millennials as opposed to like Gen Z Alpha?

[00:28:04] Rachel Moore: I mean, if I had to take a wild guess at it, it just, like you mentioned Tanya, they want people to buy the enterprise version of Canva, like have Canva teams where you, you have multiple people in your company who are using Canva because you can, I mean, at the last company I worked at, we did have like a team of learning development people that were all designers.

[00:28:26] They all had Adobe Creative Cloud, but we had like for our marketing and for a lot of people who we were responsible for sending out just the flyers or, you know, the, employee communications and stuff. We were all using Canva and we, we created our brand in there so we could enforce it. So we were all using the right font.

[00:28:45] We were using our colors. So in saying all that, it feels like they were definitely saying, Hey company, you should not be using these other tools. This should be the lone tool you’re using for your content generation across your teams. Therefore invest with us that everybody’s using that same tool.

[00:29:01] And then. I mean Hamilton’s been out for a bit. And I’ve seen people describe this as a Hamiltonish, you know, rap. And I’m like, okay, I, I don’t know that that’s necessarily like, oh, it’s only Hamilton-y. And again, I don’t listen to a lot of rap, so I’ll say that disclaimer.

[00:29:16] I don’t know if, if I had to guess, I would say this is probably geared toward the the people who are going to spend the money. They’re going to drop some coin on saying we need a content tool. It’s going to be this. We either spend it here. We spend an Adobe. We’re going to pick Canva. Are we going to pick Canva now?

[00:29:30] Cause you guys did a rap.

[00:29:33] Elizabeth Allen: So is it one of those situations where it’s being targeted to a slightly older crowd who doesn’t know anything about like the younger generation and they’re like, I’ve heard they liked rap. So like, they might want to use this. This seems like right up their alley. I think that might be part of it, which if that’s the case, then I, I guess you killed it. Like, you, you, you got the people you wanted who were like, oh yeah, the youngins would enjoy this. And while the youngins are like my daughter would always say, this is so fucking cringe, you know,

[00:30:04] Rachel Moore: I did just look up, so, cause I was curious, uh, this is from Startup Geek. Canva generated more than 1 billion in revenue in the year 2021 (this is old). As of that year, that was three years ago ago, so this could be not relevant anymore. Most of Canva users are 25 to 34.

[00:30:20] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah.

[00:30:21] Rachel Moore: And I, it looks like people are Googling.

[00:30:23] Tanya Ballard Brown: Do you think 25 to 30? You’re right. Some, some not 25 to 34 year olds were like, here’s how we’re going to reach the 25 to 34 year olds.

[00:30:32] Elizabeth Allen: That’s exactly what I’m saying. Yes, exactly. There was somebody who was older than that who was like, this is what the kids today like. And, and all the 25 to 34 year olds were like, no.

[00:30:43] Tanya Ballard Brown: No. I think, you. know, it was hilarious is that no one in this podcast group is 25 to 34. And we can see that this is not, this ain’t that, this ain’t hitting.

[00:30:57] Elizabeth Allen: All you have to do is like get those three brain cells working and be like, do I remember, this is the part that kills me. This is something, a hill I will die on is like forgetting what it felt like to be younger. I do not understand people who, like, how do you forget what it was like to be like a teenager?

[00:31:14] How do you forget what you felt like when you were in your early twenties? Like we all should remember that, but I swear to God, too many people as they get to each of those like echelons is like, nope, I’ve always been 40. I’ve always been 50. They cannot remember that. It’s like, when you talk about like, you know, like teenagers having sex and I’m like, but what age did you start having sex?

[00:31:35] You were probably a teenager. So when you’re like talking about your kid and you’re like, how, no, hell no. You will not be like, you know, it’s the same exact thing where I’m like, I feel like you all forget what it was like to be a kid. And in this situation, when we’re talking about pop culture references, you need to know that you would have looked at this rolling your eyes into the back of your skull as far as it could go. There’s no way. I mean, I give, I give credit. I think it’s interesting. And like you said, I think it does create a lot of conversation around it.

[00:32:07] And maybe that was the point. I feel like I’m not going to give enough credit to Canva and I’m going to assume they thought this was a killer campaign that there wasn’t anything about it that was like, oh, this is kind of satire and we’re kind of poking fun of our at ourselves. I think they thought this was really like the cool thing

[00:32:23] Rachel Moore: to do.

[00:32:24] So I, I have more to offer. Um, and I’ll, I’ve dropped the link in our notes so we can include it. But, um, when we post the podcast, so, and this is from 2024, 34 percent of Canva users are 25 to 34 years old. Um, but then the second largest group is 18 to 24, but it, it points out the affordability of Canva because it is, I mean, Tanya, you mentioned you use the free version and you get away with a lot using the free version.

[00:32:48] Elizabeth Allen: Yeah. The free version is very cool.

[00:32:50] Rachel Moore: I’m betting they’re going after enterprise level. They’re like, we want to get more of that monies. We’re going for older people. We know you youngies are going to cringe at us. Are you going to stop using Canva? No, just because we did a silly rap. No, you’re going to keep using it because it’s affordable and easy to use.

[00:33:04] But if we were talking enterprise level, older people, Gen X and things like that, where you’ve got some money to spend and this could be our alternative. I bet that’s what they’re going for. Again, just based on five minutes, 15 minutes of talking about it and two minutes of Googling, but interesting. All right. Well, Canva, uh, we’re all talking about you and your ears are burning

[00:33:24] Tanya Ballard Brown: I’ll allow it.

[00:33:26] Elizabeth Allen: How many times have you been hashtag this week? Probably a lot. So, you Good for

[00:33:29] Rachel Moore: you.

[00:33:29] Social team’s very busy. I’m sure.

[00:33:30] Elizabeth Allen: You won. Yep.

[00:33:32] Tanya Ballard Brown: And there’s at least one person who was like, who? That then went to the site and was like, oh, I didn’t even know they had this.

[00:33:39] Elizabeth Allen: And honestly, I will tell you after all this conversation , I still will absolutely use Canva. So it’s not like I’m like, they’re too corny to use anymore. I get it. But, yeah, it’s a great application. Even the free version. So good. Very useful. So I will give them their, their

[00:33:56] Rachel Moore: flowers for that.

[00:33:56] All right. You get some flowers, Canva, and we’ll go design some for you on your tool. Uh, all right. Well, we’ve wrapped up a good marketing. Uh, let’s take a quick break and we’ll be right back.

[00:34:05] ​

[00:34:38] We Got Got

[00:34:38] Rachel Moore: All right. And we’re back. We’re going to wrap up this episode with the We Got Got segment. Uh, I have one, and again, this is, this is talking about marketers, who got got by some marketing. I have a really simple one, but I’m going to go to y’all first. Do y’all have anything you got got by recently?

[00:34:53] Tanya Ballard Brown: I do, actually. I can’t tell you the name of it because I’ve already forgotten it. But, um, I don’t mean it in a bad way but, Because, you know, we’ve been talking about buying clothes and such. And so I get a lot of clothes in like my kind of style who are, I’m guessing like drop shippers or, you know, like all of these people are not real.

[00:35:16] I mean, I could probably spend my money and buy and get the thing, but they’re not like brick and mortarish kind of things. That said, I have long wanted a denim pantsuit because, I don’t know, I guess I think I’m like Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake in the early 2000s. But I wanted it with like the, like a fitted blazer. And anyway, girl, when it came down my timeline, I was like, I gots to have it.

[00:35:45] And it turned out it really was a brick and mortar business in a place that I know. So I was like, next time I go to that city, I’ll go there and see it live. I ordered this suit. I got it. I put it on and it’s looking good. I mean, I got to get some alterations because everything comes, you know, they forget that some of us are not tall and long legged.

[00:36:05] But I will say that when I say I got the ad, I got got, it’s like the ad came and I didn’t immediately choose. It came, I clicked on it and then I looked at it and I clicked through and I clicked, clicked, clicked through and then I let it go and then it came up again and I clicked. They were like, she’s gonna, all we need to do is keep bringing this, this dinner.

[00:36:25] Elizabeth Allen: They had your ass. Yep.

[00:36:26] Tanya Ballard Brown: And so I just went ahead and pulled the trigger. It’s so cute though. It’s gonna be cute.

[00:36:30] Elizabeth Allen: Alright, so, once you get it tailored, we demand pictures in the Slack, because I can’t believe I haven’t seen them yet. I’m very upset about that.

[00:36:39] Tanya Ballard Brown: I mean, I literally just got it like two days ago. And I immediately tried it on and I was like, I have to take it to the cleaners and let them, um, I mean, there’s a full, a good five inches of too much material. Ideally you’re supposed to wear it with heels and I would, but even with heels, it’s too long .

[00:36:54] Elizabeth Allen: You are a little Polly Pocket, that’s why I love you.

[00:36:57] Tanya Ballard Brown: I don’t know why I don’t, I cannot get my head around when I see people who are five feet tall. And I’m like, that person looks short. In my head, I’m schmedium and not short, but I just need to accept I’m short and let go.

[00:37:10] Elizabeth Allen: This is when I freaked out Tanya the first time we ever met.

[00:37:12] Rachel Moore: Where you unfolded out of the vehicle.

[00:37:14] Tanya Ballard Brown: I don’t know why I, I, It was like, she’s, I’m short, like, she’s my height. I don’t know why. And then, and then you, you had gams, you know, like, it wasn’t just that you were tall, you had gams girl. I’m like, and I’ve always wanted like long legs and I’m, I don’t know, I don’t know how I looked at my short mother, very short grandmothers and ever thought I somehow was going to come out of there with long legs, but I always wanted long legs.

[00:37:40] Elizabeth Allen: I’m very excited about this outfit, so we will have to see it.

[00:37:44] Rachel Moore: What about you, Elizabeth? Did you get got?

[00:37:45] Elizabeth Allen: All right, so I got got a couple of times. So the biggest one was Icelandic Provisions Skyr, which is like the weird version of yogurt. It’s called skyr, right?

[00:37:56] So I was on TikTok and this woman who had to have been like later Gen Z, like older Gen Z, And her whole thing was, she was the social media manager and she held up the cup of the skyr to see if it would fall out. Kind of like Dairy Queen back in the day, you know, and she just held it up for like ever and set a timer and it didn’t come out. And I am a whore for a like creamy yogurt type thing.

[00:38:27] Tanya Ballard Brown: That’s why I do Siggi’s.

[00:38:28] Elizabeth Allen: Like, Yeah, exactly. You got me into Siggi’s. So yeah, I totally agree with that. And I don’t like super sugary things either. And so she held this up and it did not budge. And I was like, I have to buy that. And I have since purchased it twice. I got the, the peach and cloudberry delicious. I got the lime and the lemon. All very good.

[00:38:51] Tanya Ballard Brown: Wait, what brand is it again?

[00:38:53] Elizabeth Allen: What? Icelandic Provisions.

[00:38:56] Tanya Ballard Brown: Excellent. Oh, I’ve had that.

[00:38:57] Elizabeth Allen: It’s so good. You know, it reminds me kind of of the Siggi’s because it’s got that kind of same level of like, it’s not super sugary. So just the fact that the social media manager who looked like a kid, like she, she looked like she was in her mid twenties holds up the goddamn package and I’m like sold. I’m, I’m, I’m going to buy it because that looks delicious. So you know what? If she’s ever hearing this, she probably will not, but like, you know what, you are a master at your craft and I’m very impressed by you because you got me.

[00:39:30] Um, the other thing was the Farmacy Honey Milk., Farmacy, F A R M A C Y, which is a skincare brand, which I’ve used before. But I saw one ad on Tik Tok for the Honey Milk, which is like a hydrating kind of serum thing. And I literally went out and bought it that day. And again, I’m unemployed. So why am I doing that? And Farmacy is not cheap, but I immediately went out and bought it that day. And you know what? No regrets.

[00:39:59] And the other thing was I watched this woman and she was doing like a, a sponsored TikTok thing and it was talking about the Maison Perrier. So I don’t know if that’s different than like Perrier type of thing, but it was Maison Perrier Forever Sparkling and then they had lime and then they had Forever Blackberry and then there’s one other flavor And I got those and now keep in mind, they’re like any other sparkling water I’ve ever purchased, which I purchase pretty regularly. Like I get Polar or Bubly or whatever. But I immediately was like, I have to try this. And that one was like, eh, and I didn’t do a price comparison so it might be more expensive or cheaper than what I normally buy.

[00:40:44] And if that were the case, then I would like kind of change it up. Cause it tasted just like all of the other ones. But , again, it was within that week, I was like, I need to go buy that right now. That looks so refreshing, but I will say the Icelandic Provisions Skyr was the one that really got me. That was watching somebody doing a social media post where I was immediately like, Oh,

[00:41:05] You’ve convinced me. I need to get it right now and I absolutely did. And again I purchased it twice since and no regrets

[00:41:15] Rachel Moore: Excellent. Um, and then I got got. I haven’t gotten out much in the last week cause my husband just got knee replacement surgery. And I typically don’t do our grocery shopping. So I usually don’t go to Costco. Um, but I went to Costco and I went to get a couple of things and I decided cause he and my daughter had got some shorts there.

[00:41:32] And. I don’t know if you’re all familiar with the Kirkland brand that is through Costco. And if you look up Kirkland, a lot of people are fans of Kirkland. And Costco generally. We like it. So I walked through and, uh, I got got. Their advertising is nothing. It is like literally a stand with plexiglass and they have like a white piece of paper with probably Times New Roman type.

[00:41:53] And it just says, here’s what this is in large type and here’s the price. I still have it because I bought it. It is the ladies travel pant by Kirkland. Um, it is very cute. That is what it looks like. There’s a cargo pocket in it. And I got myself a pair. They had black and then they had two other colors, like a kind of aqua blue and then also like a kind of brownish orange.

[00:42:14] And I’m going to go back and get those other colors. Um, But I like it cause they feel like they probably would be moisture wicking. Like you can wear it on a long flight. I could put my phone and my ID and stuff in my pocket and not have to deal with a purse. Um, they’re super comfy and I’m wearing them on an 80 degree day and I feel very cool. So, uh, got got by just a walkthrough of the Kirkland clothing section at Costco.

[00:42:38] Elizabeth Allen: Did I just get got on my own podcast? Is that what just happened? I feel like I need to go get them now and I have not heard of them. But like I got got on my own

[00:42:49] Rachel Moore: podcast.

[00:42:50] Super awesome. Very lovely. I like that. They’re kind of, you know, capri or like, you know, kind of cut off, like .

[00:42:56] Elizabeth Allen: A little cropped, yeah. Those are super cute. God damn. Like, I can’t get away from any of it. I’m just like, I want to spend my money in every spot in the world.

[00:43:05] Rachel Moore: I think that, yeah, I think I need that yogurt you described for my nutrition. I need some.

[00:43:09] Tanya Ballard Brown: Lime is really good.

[00:43:11] Elizabeth Allen: The lime is really good. The peach and, who the fuck knows what a cloudberry is? But the cloudberry, like peach and cloudberry, very tasty. And just the fact that you call it cloudberry. It could be nothing. Like, they could have made that term up and I was like, Cloudberry?

[00:43:26] Rachel Moore: So true. Well, we got got and, uh, anyone who’s listening to this, you could get got to by these same things that got us got. And so, marketing works obviously. To what degrees, we will find out. But our moneys tell the story. But that’s all the time we have for today. But on our way out, Elizabeth, where can people find and follow you online?

[00:43:47] Elizabeth Allen: All right, so you can find me on LinkedIn. I can’t remember my LinkedIn address right now. Hold on a second.

[00:43:55] Rachel Moore: She’s editing this. If she’s just going to take that right out.

[00:44:00] Elizabeth Allen: Maybe I won’t. Uh, so you can find me on LinkedIn at ElizabethAllen1001.

[00:44:06] Rachel Moore: Very good. Very good. Tanya, where can people find and follow you online?

[00:44:10] Tanya Ballard Brown: I am T double B T D O U B L E B on pretty much every platform. I, I try to claim it whenever I can.

[00:44:20] Rachel Moore: Name it, claim it. Excellent. And, y’all can find and follow me at Rachel HastheMic. M I C anywhere and everywhere. Also follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at Just Trust Me Podcast. And anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast, if you like this podcast, subscribe, so you don’t miss the episodes.

[00:44:38] If you really liked it, please leave us a review because that’s good marketing anyway. And we’ll catch you on the next episode of Just Trust Me. Bye.